Training Situation - Page 1

Here's a quote from Spook from another thread. "If you are doing helper work in a training capacity, you have to have the ability to be whatever the dog you're working needs. A lot of helpers are not capable of this because they cannot really read a dog. A lot of them fake it and most handlers don't know the difference." This is a very good point. There are dogs messed up by helpers that do not know how to bring a young dog along. As a handler how can someone know if the helper they are using is helping or damaging their dog?

Not sure if I have the words but It is easy for me to tell by reading my dog. I instruct and discuss with the trainer all thru the work session. You have to be a team and open to the helpers feedback at times.

Good helper work should utilize both drives in the young dog. When the dog starts to get too comfortable the helper can then and only then increase the pressure. This should bring intensity and clarity to the dog. To often poor work is pushed too fast and the dog never gets to his zone where he can operate at his max. I see too much snapping and cracking of the whip with young dogs and they overload abd then cannot think. Any desent helper should be able to walk on a field and with his body get the responses needed. One way to think of it is a big bad ass walks into a bar and looks over the entire room slowly looking to pick a fight. His eyes stop on one guy and the the fight is on. Body and eyes are all that is needed. Jump in Spook anytime with your take.--Bob

Most training helpers don't relize that they have to train the handler as well as the dog. Most handlers can not read their own dogs. Training the young dog in protection is a very difficult and often miunderstood skill. Dog1, to answer your question, you must know your own dog. You must know how to switch drives in a dog and when your dog has switched drives. You must also know the progression in protection work. You never introduce a young dog in protection work to the big bad ass that walks on the field slowly looking to pick a fight. That can ruin a dog forever! This is never done until the dog is mentally mature enough to handle this type of challenge. Kyle Kyle

realcold, I agree about the whip. We used to use it so much, dogs became dependent on it. I think a lot of us saw them used effectively, but failed to take the time to understand their use. As far as training helper work. My philosophy is the dog should leave the field at least a little stronger and a little more confident than when he came on. 99% of the time he should leave feeling he's the winner and 1% of the time he should leave frustrated. (If the dog is having a blond moment and can't focus, he leaves without a bite. Helpers and handlers must have set goals that build on the previous session. Can your helper remember every dog? Then you better be able to refresh his memory. Kyle's absolutely correct about it being imperative that you know your own dog. You can't depend on the helper; you must educate yourself. If you really work at educating yourself you will probably avoid having a helper screw up your dog. Of course, you may get to a point where you wonder why you ever let him work your dog. Finally, the primary issue is pressure. You put pressure on the dog he fights through it, he wins, confidence skyrockets and you're developing a winner.

Kyle. I was talking older dogs. See my post for soft helpers for our young dogs. My point was I think most helpers are too active. Dog is active and helper reactive as a general rule. Right drive =good bite--Bob

realcold, if you're talking about helpers flailing around, I agree. Once a dog learns his action initiates a reaction you're on your way. With a puppy everything you do is either bite building or getting him to understand that the proper action is rewarded by the reaction he desires (the bite).

Dog1, In order to know if your helper can read dogs,( which is the issue) YOU must be able to read dogs. When I watch people that cannot read a dog, but rely on a formula, their mistakes jump out at you. Pesonally, I think their are just some things that cannot be taught. People can improve, but in the long run some will just run into different scenerios they cannot work through. Not everyone should work in this capacity. There are a ba-Zillion different variables to rely on formulas. If you are fascinated with and obsessed with your dog or dogs in general then you have a start. One also has to remain teachable, but in the end I still believe it is a talent that some have and some don't. Just my opinion

very good topic lots of good info. i agree about the quote, some have it and some don't. a very good trainer once told me helpers are born not made. to me a great training helper will adapt to every dog and handler. this is one thing we do well in our club. in our club we never make more drive than the handler can handle.

olskoolgsds, you are so right. It's a real laugher when you see someone use the same method or technique over and over just because they had success with it one or twice earlier. If you can't read and adjust during the training session you probably won't be successful.