breeders - Page 1

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF WHO ARE THE BETTER BREEDERS IN LONG ISLAND NEW YORK?

The top breeder in that area would in my opinion be John Henkel in Connecticut. He is by far the largest and most succesful breder in terms of show results. Steve Patch in New York has nice dogs.

Big does not mean better!!!1

Hmm. there are many standards by which people may judge a good breeder. In Germany, year after year, while the owners of the VA dogs may change, it is these dogs that both the Germans and the rest of the world run to breed to. To my knowledge, on Long Island, there are only two breeders that own or have ever owned a VA dog. The first is Phoenix Shepherds whose owners have been around for 40 years and who own 2004 VA 9 Zamp v Steilen Ufer and 2005 VA 4 Bax v Premutia. Both these dogs were V rated in the V 40's at the German Sieger show! Prior to breeding German dogs their background had been in American bred shepherd lines. They were quite successful there in that they bred or owned 11 American and 6 Canadian Champions, one of which went Select, a title comparable in esteem as the VA title is to the German dog. The other is Empirelamd, who has been in Shepherds less than 4 years. His first and only American Champion came from Phoenix's line. At the time he purchased the VA bitch he now owns, he was partners with the people from Phoenix who actually found the VA bitch and had earmarked her for a parntership purchase which failed to come about. His other VA dog is co-owned with Mittelwest and is amazingly up for sale after owning it for less than two years. Perhaps if your looking for a fast track to success, you might wish to talk with the methods used by the Empireland people, co-own or buy a dog with someone of greater experience and have them show you the way. Keep in mind there are always hundreds of critics who will knock the successful breeders and importers, usually though, their dogs are amongst the many losers at the more important shows. Despite the occasional ominous complaints by some outraged purchasers I see posted here from time to time, it is my contention that the breeders like Bullinger, Fleischerheim, Mittelwest and Wilhendorf will be VA contenders year after year at the Sieger shows in this country if for no other reason than the volume of dogs they purchase is usually of good to excellent quality. As for the two Long Island kennels, Phoenix certainly has shown longevity and is the only kennel I know to have successfully moved from American to German lines with similar success. Two back to back VA dogs of different blood lines is rarely an accident or "luck" as some would have you think. Empireland, could be a shooting star, not unlike Turbo kennels of a few years ago. You can throw a lot of money around and get "lucky" or you can try to hedge your investment and go with those of a more proven track record. I do hope this info and logic helps in your next selection. Oh, one last thing, keep in mind an old adage, quality and price go hand in hand, there are no "bargains" out there. When you shop for champaigne, dont do it with a beer pocketbook, you'll usually get what you pay for.

trexshep are you perhaps Frank Tate? or maybe his wife? You seem to know an awful lot about their kennel and breeding program to not be connected to them in some way. Frank Tate does not have a stellar reputation in the GSD world and the reason has nothing to do with jealousy. I have had no personal dealings with Frank but have heard many stories from people that I know and trust that do not paint a pretty picture of the man. If you meet him in person I’m sure you can form your own opinion, enough said. Spending big bucks on high placing imports does not make you a good breeder, it just makes you a buyer with resources. Perhaps the best advice is to simply contact known breeders in your area, make an appointment to visit with them and see their dogs and their facility and ask them to provide you with some references from people who have purchased from them. Remember that guarantees are only as good as the people that stand behind them. Try to find out how the after purchase support from the breeder is also. * I.M.O. one of the BEST things you can do is: Check out the Clubs that are listed in your area on the Schutzhund U.S.A. site. Contact them and find out when they train. Take a visit to their training facility and see what dogs you like. Ask the owner where they got their dog from, ask if they can give you any information on breeders such as Frank Tate and John Henkel. I’m sure that you will find many members in these clubs that have been around for quite a while and can help you sift through things in an intelligent fashion. Best of luck.

Odin, he said he was partners with empireland didn't he. seems like you have something more against frank tate ,then "what you've heard from people"? being you never met the man why would you bad mouth him?/

Excuse me tina5 but I don't see where it is stated that they are partners, all I read about was a failed co-ownership. I have never met Frank Tate but will reiterate that I have not heard anything positive about him. This comes from people that I have known for over 20 years and I consider close friends in the breed. I was not trying to turn this into a bash Frank Tate post, you are the one harping on it. I stand by the advice I have given trexshep. Give it a rest tina5 or by all means add something positive about Mr. Tate if you have had personal dealings with him or know of people that you trust that can tell about him.

odin, i didn't harp on anything, calm down..failed co-ownership isn't partners? i apologize if i hit a nerve-- i have nothing to add, but his record on breeding o.k. dogs looks pretty good. and how is he around so long if he was such a bad person? forget it,don't bother to answer

No, a failed co-ownership is just that, failed, it is NOT a partnership. There are plenty of people that do not enjoy a great reputation that are still around. Bottom line, do your homework, go out and see for yourself, the rest is all B.S. anyway.

Hmm have to keep my posts short on this list. Now I'm a person that likes to go to the root of things in other words, I like to be correct about things before I express them. So first I went to the dictionary and looked up the name ODIN turns out he was a Scandanavian myth, a god of war. Then directly under that definition was the word ODIOUS, meaning deserving and causing hatred; hateful, repugnant, detestable, highly offensive. Perhaps on this lists ODIN wishes to live up to their namesake or at least wishes to approach anyone that disagrees with their ideas or comments in such a manner. ------------------------------------------------