White Shepherd History - Page 1

I was reading through the history of the "white shepherds" and I was hoping someone could just clarify a few things so I was understanding it correctly. This is from one of the white shepherd history pages I was reading... "In his 1921 book, Stephanitz stated, "The coloring of the dog has no significance whatsoever for service." Clearly, the founder of the breed had no preference for one particular color over any other." But then I was reading that Nazis didn't like the color and therefore were culling the white dogs, since it said that Hitler disliked Stephanitz anyway (I didn't know that before I read it just now). And the SV still does not recognize the white dogs, correct? So in the 60s, in North America, the White shepherd breed clubs or whatever formed and then "adopted Stephanitz’s German Shepherd Dog breed standard and formally recognized the white dog as a member of Stephanitz’s German Shepherd Dog breed." I guess what I'm asking - clearly, sorry the rambling: Is a white dog that occurs from otherwise SV litters still considered faulty? ('cause I thought it was...) Does the SV still refuse to recognize white dogs? IMO - the white shepherd is as American as apple pie. Yet some white shepherd enthusiasts are trying to say that they are trying to go with Stephanitz's ideal but all the dogs clearly LOOK like those god-awful american show dogs. How can there be supposed "real white German dogs" in their pedigrees (according to the white shepherd enthusiasts) if the SV does not recognize it? I guess they could do it if they were using colored SV bitches whose lines are known for producing white, or crossing the colored dogs with the white dogs...but that would seem to be looked down on because of the lack of "purity" of the white shepherd. Then I read this: "Using Stephanitz’s original German Shepherd Dog standard, breeders have successfully founded a North American White Shepherd breed that closely resembles Stephanitz’s vision of an ideal Shepherd Dog, similar in conformation to German Shepherd Dog breed progenitor white-coated Greif von Sparwasser and early White German Shepherd Dog Berno v.d. Seewiese. All three clubs promote and organize Schutzhund-style working trials and conformation dog shows." So they're trying to recreate a German 'looking' dog. Ok, I've got that. So are they actually out there being titled in Schutzhund or being used as working dogs? 'Cause I was trying to find some, and have not been successful so far. It seems to me that there is a hipocracy among these "white shepherd people" that they basically turned the white dogs into that hideous show type and are now trying to fix it. How is this different from any American show line people are going to make up for generations of that screwed up rear angulation and just magically have some work ethic and good nerve re-appear in their lines? This interest for me just got sparked by someone I know who has a white shepherd, and she is new to the "breed". I am trying to remain somewhat unbiased to her even though I don't care for white dogs myself, but the whole idea of breeding FOR color turns my stomach, and the white shepherd seems so Americanized - maybe I'm wrong though, that's the reason for the post. But the history behind it is very interesting to me. Feel to email me if needed. Curiosity killed the cat, huh? :)

Americans are not the only ones breeding whites. Yes, it was an original colour, so was cream. Based on that part of GSD history the FCI has in recent years accepted the White Shepherd as a separate breed called the Swiss White Shepherd. Use the search option and you will find some other topics about the whites on this board. Whites still fall occasionally in SV bred GSD, though very rare, and are kept hush hush - too bad for reputation. They could be registered with the SV but would never be allowed to reproduce under SV rules. So its a dead end registration paper for such a dog. Many breeders use the Stephanitz name as nothing more than a PR gimmick. Regardless if they are breeding whites, or American line or German line. Many white GSD in the US are still bred according to AKC standard, and many breeders of whites would like to see the AKC accept the whites into the AKC shows, so yes those dogs will resemble more the American style dog. A standard is always subject to interpretation, even the SV standard. Keep in mind also that the SV standard of today is not the original standard any longer. Considering size alone I doubt that the original standard is used. That said, go back to some of the dogs of the early Stephanitz time, have a look at some of those pix. That will probably answer a lot of your questions. At least in terms of looks. That dog Greif lived before the formation of the SV.

DH VA Bodo vom Lierberg was here in usa he produced white offspring. B litter was a carrier of the white gene.

There is a book which has been continuously in print in German, and occasionally in print in English, called, "The German Shepherd Dog is word and Picture", (or "Der Deutche Schäferhunde im Wort und Bild"), by Max vom Stephanitz. I think you can probably get at least a German language copy from the SV in their shop. In this book, v. Stephanitz goes extensively into the history of herding dog breeds and other working breeds in Europe, and further into Middle Eastern antiquity. Many people do not know this, but v. Stephanitz is credited with contributing a very large amount of contemporary knowledge about the lineage and history of dogs (cynology). At any rate, he talks about a possible link between a lack of pigment and other genetic maladies such as deafness, as observed in some breeds such as the Dalmation and the then-new breed, the Boxer. Boxers, like the Dobermann Pinscher, were a "designer" dog, developed to capitalize on the new demand for border dogs, police dogs, and other such types of dogs for man-work. The Boxers were, at the time, mostly white.. similar to the American Bulldog. And, like the American Bulldog and Dalmation, there is a genetic tendency to deafness. It is quite probable that v Stephanitz observed this failing in predominantly white dogs of other breeds and decided that the risk was too great to tolerate. Hence, the white color was forbidden for registration and breeding. Now, it should be noted that there is no documented genetic link between the white color and deafness in the GSD (DSH), and especially if the color of the nose, pads, nails and eyes is dark, the dog has the underlying genetics for good pigment. But regardless, this is the way that it happened. And until fairly recently in the breed, pigment has been stressed as something of great desirability and importance.

By the way, the modern Boxer is no longer prone to deafness, to the best of my knowledge. But their pigment has been greatly improved over the years to where the color is mostly a rich fawn or brindle with white patterns on the neck, chest and belly frequently seen. Quite a few years ago, the white GSD fanciers in Germany were getting together their own breed organization and breaking away from the mainstream SV, where they had no rights or recognition at all. White dogs are generally destroyed or given away by SV breeders, but they are seldom seen anymore, anyway. If it were known that a dog produced whites, that would be a death knell for his breeding carreer. It's kept a secret, if it happens. One VA dog, Valk von der Michelstädter Rathaus, came here to the US years ago, probably because he was a known producer of blues, another "forbidden" color (dilute black). Here's the thing: If you like white GSDs, then have them and enjoy! They are pretty and there is no apparent genetic degradation. But they should belong in their own breed registry, probably with occasional introductions of good blood from the mainstream to reinvigorate the lines. My observation has been, over the years, that this was such a small group of fanciers that they did not have a broad gene-pool. If they are going to remain as GSDs, it is highly recommended to keep breeding back into the main population (or whatever specific family lines are desired) from time to time, while selecting for the desired color. I think that the white GSDs are very much an American phenomenon.. They became very much popularized by Jack LaLane's TV fitness show, back in the 50's. He always had two white GSDs lounging around on the set while he did his reps. They were very pretty dogs and looked quite large. The reality is that Jack was just a very small, well-proportioned man. AKC registers them, of course.. But they will also register blues, so "Go figure"!

JohnsK9, are you quite certain about Bodo producing whites? That would be very interesting, because Bodo was in my area, and I know that he was bred to some local bitches of no particular calibre. A friend of mine had an excellent dog back around that time who was typical of the old-type German working dogs and this dog had excellent temperament, trainability and drive, but very good nerves and clear-headed. All traits known by the B litter Lierberg to have produced. My friend's dog was born from a white dam. We do know that much, but he had no known pedigree. Nevertheless, he was a credit to the breed. The B litter vom Lierberg was said by breed expert and geneticist Malcolm Willis, PhD, to be possibly the best litter ever bred. Yet it was known that this line produced a few quirks, such as the blue color.

Nation Geographic channel has a show called "Dogs with Jobs".  I recently saw an episode about a German Shepherd that was one of the top avalanche recovery dogs in the Alps.  He is a white American/Canadian line Shepherd. I TIVO'd it and may still have it on my recorder.

Yes they are carries here is a link with the list. I had a list some where if i find it i will post it. John Gallery of Well Known German Shepherd Dogs Who Carried the White Gene http://www.angelfire.com/wi/birkenbaum/wcpix.html

I found this site some time ago and remembered that there were whites that pop up in this ladies breeding program from long ago. I found it a fun site to browse thru. http://www.rintintin.com/index.htm

Yes the Rin Tin Tin story is very interesting, as is Daphne Hereford who owns the RTT name (trademark) and legacy now. My white male, Taz, goes back to RTT and he is such an intelligent dog. I wonder if any of you on this list that DO breed german dogs ever get any whites in their litters. If you do, could you please contact me? I would love to have a white from all german lines!!!! :) I am crossing my white male Taz with my german lines and so far am coming up with excellent temperament, health and trainability. I do think it is very important to cross the whites with the german lines. I know of several white breeders here in the USA who want the breed to become separated, but if it is, then we will not be able to outcross the whites to the colored dogs and will greatly reduce the genepool. Not a good thing. I am not for the whites becoming a separate breed like they have in Germany. Peggy knightenhaus