Cloning... - Page 1

It's been brought to the table that we should all be breeding a Specific type of dog, Though no one seems to agree on that specific dog. Some show lines would go with a perfect show dog, while other workinglines would go with the perfect working dog, still others would rather choose a happy medium of the perfect blend of both of those dogs. My question is this, If we are going to hang every breeder who steps out of the Ordinary, who develops they're own ideals, who sees they're own goals, then what the heck are we doing breeding at all ??? Why not just clone the perfect dogs ? Breeding is a gamle, No breeding will produce the desired result every single time. We do our homework look for dogs who compliment each other, improve on this or that, and we try. But in this gamle of breeding some are convinced that SchH titles and KKL are the only criteria for breeding dogs. I do not beleive this you all know that. But if that is the case then again why not just clone the dogs with the highest scores ? Why breed at all ? I guess this is my way of calling you all to task on it, Why are YOU breeding at all when we could have the "perfect" dogs cloned and take no gamble at all ? Is it maybe that you enjoy and love your dogs and also wish to share the GSD expeirience that you have with others by raising a few pups and selling into those homes who desire the GSD expeirience we all have ??? Be Honest !!

UGH.....well cloning...hmm...not my idea. I don't want to play God. I Do want a good dog though, but as we all know there are NO perfect dogs in the world, just as there are no perfect people. Every dog has something that is not perfect about it. The only thing we can do is to try to breed the best we possibly can and hope for the best. Like you say, breeding IS a gamble! Peggy

Didn't it cost like $50000 to clone those animals?? Not exactly reasonable, nor is it acceptable to most people.....and I'm kinda tired of this whole thread. It seems to be popping up all over in one form or another. This thread however has crossed over the edge and is not even a matter to discuss.... how about we all go train our dogs???

People breed for what they want. It would probably be really boring if everyone had exactly the same thing, no variation in bloodlines, no chance to outcross certain lines, the same ol' black and tan dog or the same ol' sable dog. i don't think anyone will ever agree on "what's the perfect GSD" but isn't it sort of nice that you do have this kind of variation within the breed? although i'm a 'working/sport' person myself and don't particularly care for show line dogs, and some people would surely argue about them all being one breed....but if you love the GSD, you can find a dog to suit your need for pretty much anything.

To suggest that cloning produces the perfect anything shows a lack of understanding of what cloning is about. Cloning anything, unless one finds a way to manipulate specific genes before hand, produces exactly the organism cloned with all its' imperfections, whatever they may be.

Ya want to talk about a small gene pool! That would really do it! Some nimrod out there would clone (for example) Fero Zeuterner Himmelreich, then offer him up for stud (cause they are motivated by the almighty dollar) and that Fero clone or--insert whatever famous well used dog you want here-- would have bitches standing in line to be bred 5 or 6 a day every day if it were possible! He is in enough pedigrees as it is! Anyhow, you all get what I am saying! Cloning would ruin our breed for sure! Vickie

Geeze, you people can be so literal sometimes. I believe EM was trying to make a point and not really suggesting cloning. We have enough cookie cutter dogs out there as it is. No we will never have perfection but it's the try and the almosts, that make it worth while. Another way of getting people thinking outside the box. Another way of saying the VA1 Seiger, isn't always one who should be bred to the most. I know a number of people agree with this. So my question is...why does that particular dog win then? If he isn't the most breed worthy, why did he win? Isn't that the point of the showings? Now that we have such record keeping, I bet in years to come we will see with statistics, unknown dogs making bigger contributions to the breed, than the "Champions".

What is funny about cloning is-- What happens to the registration of the dogs? LOL I mean it IS the same dog, but you were never the owner of said dog. I was just thinking of this and saw that as an immediate flaw to the "plan". (No, please don't take the whole cloning idea seriously, I surely didn't!) No dog is perfect. Even the best dogs in the world certainly have their quirks. What is perfect to one person would be totally imperfect to another. The best each of us can do is do our best to set out to improve whatever it is we are breeding for. Breed toward a purpose, not just to breed pups. I had someone once ask me why I would sell a stud that I only planned to use 3 times. The answer? I am always looking to improve upon the breed as a whole. While you can get part way there with one set of dogs, you need other dogs to improve other traits. Matiana AKA Kerschberger accused me of not keeping pups from each litter I breed to show and work in the future. I do not need to keep these pups. I have the owners of the pups that I have sold who would be happy to breed their dog (selectively, and many ask me who I personally would breed the dog to!) once they have trained, titled and hip certified them. If I kept a pup from every litter, I would end up like SOME (specifically one comes to mind, but I won't name names), with so many dogs, I couldn't properly care for ANY of them! Echo, you have to be happy with what YOU are producing, and the reasons WHY you are doing it. If you can look in the mirror every morning and tell yourself you're doing things for the right reasons, without a doubt, then you're on the right track. Just make sure that you are honest with yourself. :) I personally think this has gotten to the point where many (if not most) people are in it (breeding animals, in general) for the money. Some days I even question my own motives, because although I am breeding to improve what we have available to us in the US, I wonder if I would still do so if I only got $50 per pup (or basically just the costs for each pup)? It is certainly a lot of work, but questioning your true motivation is something I think we should all sit back and objectively do. Just my opinion among the masses....

4pack, Sometimes the dog wins because of politics, IMO this is very true in the AKC show ring. Also, an excellent trainer can take a so-so dog and make him look very good for a few trials. It is my opinion that a so-so dog will show it's true colors eventually. Maybe I am wrong but that is my opinion. Personally, I have been thinking about exactly what you said about the "unknown" or lesser known dogs, wondering what the "unknown" dog who is structrually correct with correct temperment and working ability has to offer me, the gene pool, and other breeders as well. There is only so much you can line breed on a particular dog before you start running into more and more genetic problems. Kind of like a lady in my SchH club that is a breeder. She breeds her own stuff so much and for so many years and has become kennel blind and it always seems like something structural is wrong with her dogs and quite often she has to take dogs back because they have temprement issues. But, she will rarely breed outside her own stuff. Then she has a million and one excuses why her dog scored low or didn't pass at all at trial, or why it has an injury, or why she had to put it down at such a young age! But, the titled "unknown" dogs may have more to offer than what we realize! I would be interested in seeing some pedigrees of some of the lesser known males that many of you know of that have some great working ablities! Anyone, know any good studs? Vickie

Very good post PowerHaus. I just hate to see people breed to the same studs, over and over, even after it's clear, that stud dog does not pass himself or better on. Don't pass up the little known stud dog of better temperment because he doesn't have a SCH title or koer. Not everybody is into Schutzhund, not everybody has the time to show or trial, $, interest, whatever. That doesn't make their dogs any less in breeding quality. I think with better record keeping, we will see influences of more dogs that are vertually unknown, until their progeny grow up and they throw great dogs too. Who knows, the best producer may be some little boys family companion, in the backyard. One just never knows. I no longer envy the owners of $50,000 dogs. That price tag doesn't make that dog any "better" than the rest. He just comes from the "best" kennel or had the best trainer or just was more exposed than the family companion dog.