Table training - Page 1

Have many of you read the Kohler method of guard dog training? I see the table training being very similier to some of his training methods. This is a very intersting book regardless if you agree with it or not..

yes DessertRanger -- the Kohler method is so old hat/so outdated [ unless there is an up-dated version than what i have come across 15 years ago -- if i ever saw someone train my dogs in that manner -- i would hang him from his **$$#^&. -- i use no collar and leash to train my dogs [although i do not expect novices to be that skillful at first]-- but i do use my mouth and my brains -- that is i teach and control a dog -- with my mind -- however , i do use a table /porch /stairway to teach /imprint my pups to sit /down and stand -- the height difference teaches them not to creep forward and it is very easy to teach a pup from a stand position the fold back into a sphynx position ,, similarily to teach a dog to sit and tuck it's but underneath .. from a down to keep it's front paws glued and to rise forward and upwards for a stable stand -- never never would i agitate or hit [ as i have seen in some Sch clubs / ?? don't recall if the Kohler method advocated this or not ] a young dog on a table --i have seen and heard of these young dogs on tables bering whipped to make them aggresive -- again --i would grab someone by the .... myself for doing that --i wouldn't need to call the ASCP !!

easy cowboy..don't get your panties in a wad! lol First thing is many forms of dog training have been around for years. What makes it outdated vs other training methods! The kohler method is not for sport..it is for serious guard dog training the same as the table. Every trainer has his own methods that works for them as you have yours. I am not advocating the kohler method just noticed the similarity on agitation on the table. I do know for a fact the training for Schutzhund bite work is not sufficient for a police K9. That's a fact PERIOD. My question was and is does anyone se the similarity between the Kohler method vs the table work? Would appreciate professional answers vs jumping down my thraot!

OK.If no one wants to comment I will... The Kohler method is based on the following. 1. Progressive steps. 2. Teasing 3. Frustating 4. Agitating 5. Dog always wins 6. Helper acts odd 7. At first helper merely appears then quickly runs away. Progressions depends on the dog and confidence level as they challenge the helper. This is where the Table Work / Box / remind me of this method. IMO parts of his training method are very good not that I agree with all of them.

I read William R. Koehler's Kohler method of Guard Dog training 1962 and Colonel Conrad Most's Dog Training: A Manual, English version 1954 in the mid 70's and it is where I started from as a trainer. Many people will not credit their sources trying to impress that they developed their own techniques out of thin air. This is where I got my start and evolved from there. I think these are great books and these guys were great trainers.

wiener, Colonel Conrad Most was my first book on the subject. I'll have to see if I can still find it.

I appreciate your courage Wiener. I was taught that in this life not to throw the baby out with the bath water, and even if I do not care for a person or their views, I still need to listen and learn as most have something to offer. W. Koehler and W. Strickland were I believe the first dog books I purchased some years ago. For the life of me I cannot remember the details of his training accept that it involved what D.R. lists above. I remember that he flanked dogs to create distrust in overly trusting dogs. He trained Disney dogs as I recall and obviously had some success. Some of his methods I felt were abusive and dangerous to the dog when it came to breaking dogs of bad habits etc. If you want a protection trained dog, or a dog that will be a " Man stopper " as Koehler called it, then the entire focus on training is different than say Schutzhund. This is what Koehler taught, guarding and protection. Though some of his methods were not always in the best interrest of the dog by todays standards, they worked at that time and under those set of values. He had much insight for the times in which he lived. We have more advanced techniques and toys today but I would hate to see all of his teaching squashed,and trampled on years later because we are so much better. His goal was to produce good working dogs, the same as ours.

I first read his book in the 80's. I don't remember anything abusive to dogs other than how to keep a dog from eating poison food. Can't remember but one way was to have a live elec wire hidden in the food so it shocked the dog if he attempted to eat it. He was only allowed to eat from his bowl and trainer. The other side effect was by making the dog dis-trust people you had to be more careful. I do remember the first chapter warned and advised against this type of training unless you knew what you were doing and could handle the dog. I will try to read it again, been too long.

D.R. I am curious if there is something in the book about striking a dog with a blunt object across the bridge of the nose . This was to break the dog of some behavioral issue. It has been to long and I could have someone else' book in mind.

Don't remember that but I am a fast reader so will re-read sometime this weekend...