Mom accidently killing puppies - Page 1

Any suggestions for how to prevent a new, first time mother GSD, from lieing, sitting or stepping on her 2 day old pups, and killing them.

Here is the situation.  A co-worker of mine has a female who just had 10 pups.  I assisted with "watching" over her during the deliveries.  Pup #7 was half the size of the rest.  He is the runt.  Pup #9 was a breach birth and I assisted with it coming out, tail first.  It came out quick and no problems.  It seemed fine.  As you know, all of the pups (10) are black and it's hard to tell them apart.  After pup number 10, which came out normally, we took a break from being with the mother and when we came back approximately 20-30 minutes later, a pup was "gone".  She could not have taken it anywhere so she must have eaten it.  I figured that it may have been the breach birth pup and it died, or she killed/injured it, and her instincts took over to keep her den clean, so she ate it.  It just dissappeared.  It may not have been the breach birth pup though.  I was very concerned that she may eat others so we watched her all night.  She was a perfect mother, except that she had a tendency to lie down on or step on the pups.

That all was yesterday.  Today, she was doing a very good job of feeding and cleaning them all, but later in the evening, we found one dead under her.  She had layed down on it and killed it.  We found it rather quickly but could not revive it.  She is doing fine with the last eight so far.

She is in a whelping box.  Is it just new mother inexperience?  Does she have to be watched 24/7 now, to prevent her from killing anymore accidently?  She seems to be trying very hard to be a good mother and giving them constant attention.  But we can not watch her every minute of everyday.  Is there a way to "fix" the whelping box so that she is less likely to lie down on them?

Thanks.

Is there a pig rail in the box?  This is our set up.  A 2X4 rail raised about 6-inches.  The board behind her is a spacer so the rail doesn't slide around.  A pig rail is no garauntee but it can help.  Good luck.

Ditto on the pig rail. Even a very experienced dam needs a box with a pig rail-especially with so many puppies. I am lucky, as I have never lost a puppy due to crushing and perhaps the pig rail deserves the credit.

Regards,

Bob-O

Puppies can be birthed just fine if they are what we consider breech, either position is considered normal ....... I wouldn't leave pups with this girl unless and until I could be sure she would be ok.. and either myself or someone would always be there with her until I was more comfortable or not.. .. she may settle in and be fine, I surely hope so.....

One of my bitches killed two of her pups even with the pig rail.  What I did was take her out of the whelping room between feedings.  It was miserable for both of us....me because I got no sleep and her because all she did was pace and whine.  After 2 days of this, she did great with the rest of the litter.

Thanks animules and Bob-o. It is midnight here and we just now finished adding pig rails to the whelping box.  The only wood we could come up with tonight was 2 x 3's, but I think they will do the job.  Thanks very much for the picture animules.  We will see what happens in the next couple of days.  I know that losing pups sometimes happens for many reasons, but is always a sad thing to see them just enter the world, and never see it.

Do right and fear no one,

I also have an idea that works that might save you some hassle!  :) I have also never lost a pup due to being "squished" by mom.

I purchased a baby AUDIO/VIDEO monitor that works even in the dark. It has multiple channels so that you can have more than one (in case you have more than one litter, or a baby like I do!) You can listen (I can even hear the mom (and my 4 month old son!) breathing with the baby monitor made) and the pups WILL make noise if stepped on or laid on, and then turn on the video to see if there are problems. It may keep you up, or wake you up even when not needed, but better safe than sorry!  It is a great thing to have, even just to watch without bugging mom, or see how the pups interact when they think that you are not watching!

The baby monitor costs about $200 and you can buy one at Baby's R Us (where I got mine).

Good luck, and congratulations to your co-worker on the litter, and to you, who brought many of them into the world.

Hope this helps!

-Melanie

Do Right: The pig rail can be made of 3" pvc pipe cut the length and width minus the 4 curve angle pieces, and to square the ends use a hack saw and square up the ends and I stuff wads of newspaper on the square holes....the cut part is against the wall  I will try to take a pick   then when pups are three weeks old you just pull corners off and tak it all put...My friend cut 2x4 wedges on each corner to hold up and on the first couple days I roll up long wise towels and stuff under to cushion, then removeafter third day....

I was told by Jane Steffenhagen, to never leave the mom, especially first time one, the first three days...of course ,Jane has many employees to do this....I have a huge birthing box, so I take a pillow and blanket , and I sleep in one end, and wake every hour to check and take her out to potty ,  I bring drinks, snacks, the telephone, and radio and a little tv , all to stay as close as I can..

Last year one of the females, rolled over on a huge 2 week, very large pup and never knew she was asleep on top of it,,,I found her or I wouldnt have known how it happened....She weight about 90 lbs after birthing, so she never felt it., under her...It was the largest in the litter.

Do Right- for someone who always acts like they know so much, a pig rail is very basic knowledge.

Hope the pups are doing well now.

Seriously, Seriously, I know a little about training personal protection dogs, property protection dogs, drug detection dogs, bomb detection dogs, etc, etc, and general dog care.  I have not bred dogs for over thirty years and then they were Dobes, Chows and Huskies, once each.  I have forgotten many things, due to my age and due to not having done them ever, or in a very long time.  Yes, once others reminded me of the pig rails (they were called puppy rails way back when), my recollection was nudged and I remembered.  I trained dogs in the military and for one year after the military with American K9, and I never participated in the breeding or rearing of litters.  I did my job that was given to me.

Here is the part where I could say that I have probably forgotten more than you will ever know about training dogs (like maybe how to poison proof a sentry dog, do you know, do you know, huh?  Looking it up now, aren't you!), but that wouldn't make sense, as you know everything.

I have a lot to learn.  I learn something new everyday, even at my age, and things do change every year.

Thanks for your concern for my pups, and remember, God gave you two ears and one mouth because he wanted you to listen twice as much as you talk.  Good advice, don't you think?

If I knew it all, I would not ask questions, I would just take shots at whoever else asked a question and then disappear, under my phony third name and wait for the next question and do it again, because since I knew it all, I could lie in the grass and strike, then slither away.

But of course, if there WAS a question that I wanted to ask, I could use another alias and ask it, like I was a newbie, and then fade away into the woodwork like a cock-a-roach.

Sound like anyone you know?

P.S.  Bite me, low.

Hope your dog/s are doing fine.