too much dog? - Page 1

I've heard that there is never too much dog. This dog that i know is large and the handler is petite. The handler works great obedience with the dog but when it comes to shutz work the handler is havin trouble holding the dog . Correct me if im wrong the handler needs a little conditioning.

     comments or suggestions

of course there is such thing as too much dog. But I always thought of it less as a size issue, and more of a control issue.

Sometimes there is too much dog for someone.  For instance myself being "new" would not be able to handle a "hard dog"-no way!  I think the dog I started with is ideal for me since he is more handler sensitive.  I don't fear that if I give him a correction he'll turn around and take a bite out of me to show me he's the boss.  BUT my dog is large and I too am petite just like ther handler you described and I have difficulty posting my dog when he's doing bitework.  He's extremly strong and powerful and probably only weighs about  40 pounds or so less than me.  When it comes to the other 2 phases of SCH we're coming along nicely but the protection part I've really had to work at with my trainer and the challenge has not been the dog but has been ME learning how to handle him when he's all fired up.  He's not "too much dog" for me I'm just simply "physically challenged" so to speak.  But a good trainer and patient person can easily fix this issue.  My suggestion would be to have this "petite handler" find someone to train with that can help her.  Some clubs will not take time to work this out , give tips or give someone like this a chance because they may consider this a "safety" issue for the helper so if the person you are speaking of in your thread is interested in SCH then this should probably get addressed before she ventures to a club to train.  If it's someone who's just wanting to train for their own personal pleasure then it may not be a big issue if the control is there with the obedience and no protection training will be done.  Whatever the case she shouldn't get discouraged by her size or ability; this is just a minor hurdle to overcome.

It's tough for a petite person to hold a large dog for protection.  Especially in the building of drive stages!  That's a when a little help on a long line is nice.  :)  Especially when your helper is kinda big himself and they are telling you to apply tension!  A friend of mine who has a large high drive dog had some issues too.  But, the club was more than wiling to help her hold the dog for beginning stages of protection.  And now that they've moved on to more "control" stuff,  things are working wonderfully for them.   PLUSSSS having someone else on a long  line, can also free you up a bit more.  I've had this recently myself when working certain things. 

I don't think there is such a thing as "too much dog" in general. There is too much dog for a particular task, sport, or goal. There is also too much dog for a particular handler.

Agar-You are the kind of "newbie" that will be "experienced" in no time. You seem able to recognize your relationship and abilities as compared to your dog at this phase in your training. Good for you!!  You have also demonstrated in previous threads your willingness to learn and listen to those with experinece. Your the kind of handler trainers really enjoy working with.

 You touch on some valid points. Part of being a good trainer is finding out how to train the handler. Most trainers will tell you it is far easier to train the dog than the handler. Good trainers can work with these issues to a point, but there is such a thing as too much dog for a particular handler or too much dog at that point in a handler's career. Good trainers can only do so much and their patients goes only so far. It is just as much the handler's responsibility to do what they need to do. Be that listen and follow the trainers directions (this usually solves the problem) or simply recognize that the dog is too much for them at this stage in their handling career. There is no shame in that. It is better for the dog and handler for them to be a good match. They will be happier and far more succesful in the long run. I have seen many handlers blame the trainer and bounce around looking for someone to "fix" problems they themselves created.

There does come a time when it becomes a liability or safety issue for the trainers and decoys. They do not have to or should they risk personal injury or liability should the dog bite someone.

Success in bitework is a complex, difficult thing to attain. You have to have a good dog, a good trainer, and a good handler. The importance of matching the right dog to the right handler is something that is far to often overlooked.

too much dog for a new handler can do one of two things..

1-make the handler better, i.e. your learning curve just took a step incline, learn to climb or  slide backwards

2-make the handler want to do something else,,, that does not include bitework

i have seen it go both ways,,in the real world it would depend on the group of people you train with; a good group will help you learn to handle your dog,

a not so nice group of people would tell you to sell your dog (usally to one of them) and get  a dog you can handle. 

Personally I have been at both ends of the spectrum.  I would have to say that a persons success greatly depends on how much they are willing/able  to learn and how quickly they can learn.

JMHO

john

Get a Real Dog-  Thank you so much for your kind words and encouragment.  It's much needed sometimes to build confidence in a "newbie".  I'm the type of person that wants to learn from point A. and I want to know what, when, where and how. lol  It can be a pain in the ass sometimes but I feel if I skip over something I don't understand or should know then I'm cheating myself only making the learning process take longer.  I myself think I've gained more one on one training because that time is all mine, free to ask as many questions as I need, free to take as long as I need to get it right and my trainer is a former k9 handler I get a little more than I would at a club setting since my primary focus and need was for Agar to be a true personal protection dog.  Agar was perfect for me because he a very nicely balanced dog and we understand each other pretty well considering I've only had him since Oct.

Now I did recently get a pup from one of his litters that I haven't yet decided what I want to do with him....we'll see how he develops to find out what he's gonna be suitable for.  I MIGHT decide to do SCH with him.  I'd like to title him myself, that would be very very cool BUT the clubs in our area are pretty limited.  We'll see how things go but I'm enjoying the learning process.  I read alot, I watch videos every week on my training sessions and this helps me pick up on my own mistakes so that the following week I correct it.  The one thing I can say is that Agar's obedience is right on perfect and he makes me very proud when I see him working for me.  He could come in and shit on my kitchen floor and I couldn't even be mad at him after that. lol Although he'd better never try to test me on that. lol  Thanks again for your post!

Quote:

I would have to say that a persons success greatly depends on how much they are willing/able  to learn and how quickly they can learn.

That about sums it up John.

I said it in another thread Agar (don't know if you saw it) if your ever out my way I'll work your dog anytime.

Careful Agar, he'll work more than your dog! LOL