Black recessive carrier (?) - Page 1

I have heard that a dog that carries the black recessive gene will show the characteristic markings of tar heels on the rear legs and pencil marks on the feet.

Is this always the case?  Is it possible for a black recessive carrier to NOT have those marks, or for a dog with those markings to NOT be a carrier of the gene?

Enlighten me, folks.

Yvette

Yes it is possible for a dog to carry the black gene and not express those markings. Its all in the genes. Here is an example of an actual female i owned that carried the black gene

Why does he have to be black?   Man am I sick of these racist remarks!  LOL

depends on if the dog is black/tan or sable.  Black/tans do not have to have the black toe marks etc to carry the black recessive - I know a female marked very similarly to gimme's dog whose sire was black (so she had to carry the black recessive) - I also owned a female Xinerobella v Tiekerhook who was darker black/tan than this, but no markings on her legs/feet - she was black recessive, as was Cynnor v Eichenluft who was the same color/markings.  I used to think all sables who had toe marks had black recessive - now I know that is not the case - I had a dark red sable with distinct toe marks who did not carry black recessive, instead he produced bicolors, never any blacks (and of course he produced black/tans, sables too).  But I do think that sables with no toe marks or markings on their legs/feet do not carry black recessive - instead they are either sable/sable or sable/blacktan.

molly

Molly

I am a bit slow this morning.  So what you said, is that Blk/Tan without leg/feet markings can carry the recessive but sables without the markings do not? 

Black/tans do not have to carry toe marks, tar heels or other markings to indicate they carry black recessive.  I have known light washed-out saddle-back marked black/tans who had a black parent (so they had to carry black recessive).  However, sables that do not have any black marks on their feet, toes, and legs will not carry black or bicolor recessive.  They will only carry sable or  black/tan recessive.  If a sable dog, no matter if it's a light washed-out grey sable or very dark red sable, has black toe marks, he carries either black or bicolor recessive, in my experience I have not seen an exception to this.

molly

What is consider black toe marks. The reason I am asking, my male has black pencil stripes on his toes. When bred to a solid black we had 16 sable puppies.  So obvisouly he does not carry the black recessive gene.

the toe marks would be distinct black stripes on each toe, at least - if not other black behind the legs or on the feet.  16 puppies????  Wow.  He could have carried the bicolor or black gene (if he has toe marks) but not passed it on to any of the puppies - with 16 puppies the chances would be small but still possible.  The only way to tell for sure is if he's ever produced anything other than sable with any female.  If not, then he's sable/sable "homozygous sable" and if he has toe marks they would probably be very slight or light if any.

molly

My female Diesel is a red sable, has no toe markings, no stripes, nothing on her legs.  I wouldn't consider her tar-heeled yet she carries black.   Bred to a bicolor (who carries black) we got 7 black pups, 3 bicolor and 3 sables recently.

Angela

NO toe marks at all?  Then she would be the first sable I've heard of with black recessive, and no indicators.  Cool.