DDR maturity - Page 1

There is so much conflicting information about dogs... especially GSDs... and I am hoping by writing I can get some experienced opinions.  I don't mean to be rude, but please, if you post, tell me a little about your experience with DDR dogs such as how many you have had or worked around and how successful those ones were so I can gauge whose advice I should heed.

Right now I am working with a year old DDR bitch and hope for her to be the first dog I title in Schutzhund.  The breeder told me that with these dogs pretty much the best thing you can do is to kennel them, don't worry about socializing so much, let them grow up, then work with them a few years down the road when their drives kick in and they are more confident.  That advice is completely against all I have heard about socializing pups... so mine still got out to socialize but I did not stress it as much as I could have.  Now I find that she will get spooked by things when out and about... but with food motivation will overcome it rather quickly.  Also, she is wary of strangers and isn't too fond of being touched... but she isn't overwhelmed to the point where she won't take food from them or play around them.

Recently I have been checking out a local Schutzhund club and the trainer there, which doesn't seem to have much experience with DDRs, said if a dog is timid in new situations and around strangers by the time they are 18 months they most likely could never do Schutzhund... kinda what you see is what you get at that age.  Of course, this conflicts with what I was told about the DDR dogs.  I hope to get some second, third, and fourth opinions here.  Thank you in advance for your input!

All pups, no matter what, lines, breed or whatever need to be exposes to a variety of situations, people, places, flooring, stairs, water, other dogs (safely on leash) other types of animals.  Socialization does not mean that you allow your pup to love on everyone and every other dog.  It means getting the pup out and allowing the pup to see that "different" can become normal and the more things are different the more the pup accepts them as normal and nothing to fear.  This builds confidence and allows the dog to work thru any fear that may be there in a healthy way.

I cannot comment on the maturity of the DDR lines.  But I can comment that undersocialzing the DDR lines can be worse than some other lines.  DDR's tend to be more reactive as they mature, aggression *can* come very easily.  The combination of a reactive and unsocialized dog is a bad one.  I'm not saying your dog is not going to improve, she very well could with some work.  I'm also going to leave the SchH comments to others here....but will add that if you work her thu her issues she has now she may come out of her shell and surprise you.  Sounds like your girl is not that bad anyway, she gets a little stressed but still takes food and doesn't go into bad avoidance is a really good thing. 

Amysue,

Good questions.  Hopefully you can get some guidance here.  First, as requested, some background... I currently own a 20 month old DDR/Czech GSD male that I am training in SchH.  My last SchH dog was a GSD from WestG/Dutch lines.  What a world of difference I have seen in these two males!

First, I completely disagree with your breeder's advice to kennel up the dog and blow off socialization.  I think that's a mistake for any dog, especially for a DDR dog.  These dogs often have a higher suspicion level than their Western brothers, and unfortunately this can manifest in the spooky behavior that you are seeing with your female.  (Naturally, this is a highly contentious topic and people tend to be polarized on the merits of DDR blood.  It seems people either love 'em or hate 'em.)  You're going to have to work hard to try and build her confidence.  Possible she was programmed that way, possible that she could have turned out normal with good socialization.

My DDR/Czech male is often unsure about new situations but once he goes through the experience he gets over it well.  He may be 20 months old but he is definitely still "puppy" in his brain.  As such, I've had to be more patient with his training.  (I had a BH on my WG/Dutch GSD by 16 months old.  No way my DDR/Czech dog would have been ready that young. )  I am constantly looking for opportunities to challenge Chaco's puppy brain, to expose him to new things.  My breeder, who only has DDR and Czech bloodlines, told me right out that my dog won't show his full potential till 3 or maybe even 4 years old. 

So, the bad news... she should have gotten more socialization, not less.

The good news... with patience and work she could mature into a fine dog with no issues.

By the way, concerning your club... how many other DDR or Czech dogs are in the club?  If the answer is 'none' then you could possibly be dealing with some bias.  Like I said, some people don't like the DDR blood at all.   They do take longer to mature.  They do sometimes have some nerve issues.  Your club's TD might be rolling his eyes and thinking, "Oh Gawd not another one of those." 

If you want to chat some more, contact me through my email.... schhbabe@yahoo.com

Now I'll let some of the other folks give their two cents.

Yvette

Kennel them and don't socialize them is the worst and most innappropriate advice for ANY dog, from poodle to GSD.   The more you do with the dog the more you will get out of the dog.  You can take an average dog, properly socialize it and have a great dog, you can take a great dog, not socialize it and end up with a tyranical immature reactionary bully.  I have only ever had 4 DDR dogs, all of whom matured quite slowly, one who died at 14 that I'm not entirely sure EVER matured, he was simply the eternal puppy.

Good luck.

Kennel them and don't socialize them is the worst and most innappropriate advice for ANY dog, from poodle to GSD.

 I highly agree with that statement!  Socialization and basic foundation work is crucial and essential at an early age for any dog whether you're going to work the dog or it's just going to be a pet.  I have 2 full DDR males one titled one not, 2 that are 3/4 DDR and west and 2 west line young females. The DDR dog is just my preference because I find that they tend to have a balance in all drives.

SCH BABE, if you're finding that the DDR dog sometimes has a nerve issue, it is due to a breeding fault within the pedigree, not the breed itself as it is with all other lines, west, czech etc.  Anyone wanting to learn more about the DDR and Czech dog's are more than welcome to visit or join our site and forum at www.ddrlegends.com

<>The DDR dog sometimes has a nerve issue, it is due to a breeding fault within the pedigree, not the breed
<>itself

DDR SDG: I sent the pedigrees to your e-mail.  I didn't post them on here because I do not wish to embarrass the breeder because of her advice that others obviously don't agree with.

All: Thank you very much for your input!  I'm not surprised that the consensus is to socialize... I thought it extreme that the breeder expects her dogs to be so stable as to not need it... but wouldn't those be awesome dogs ;)

With the DDRs, because they mature rather slowly, would you say that they are still moldable when around 18 months?  Also, besides visiting new places and socializing with a lot of people, what else would you suggest to try to get the most out of a DDR dog?  Do you think kenneling/crating most of the time, helps or henders their confidence with people?

The breeding fault would go back to the dog that had the nerve problem, or the poor temperment.  You can find out alot in researching the dog's in the pedigree.  What did those dog's produce for offspring, how were their temperments, nerves, hips etc.  People who have progeny from those dog's, SV records, koer reports, observing and testing the litter when you go to buy.

If the dog has strong nerve and temperment at 18 mo it should still be moldable.  DDR dog's have a high natural tracking instinct.  By bringing out the most you can in any given dog whether it's DDR or not is establishing good foundation basics.  The more exposure the dog has to other people and different environment the more self assured and comfortable the dog will be in new and different surroundings.