Hip or spinal Problem - Page 1

Hi List, A friend of mine at my club has a young male who has a rather rounded croup, so much so that in my opinion he can't sit or drop properly. When the dog runs his fur is often up around the lower spine/ top of the hip area. I am concerned as the dog is developing very nice in SchH and it would be a shame to see him retire early. The dog has not had hip x-rays yet, as he is only 9mths old. The dog is out of Fax v Grenzganger and Bonnie v Hopener Burgwald. Has anyone experienced something like this before? I have heard that one of Helmut Raiser's old dogs had this prob and he had to put it down.

Delta, Hip prelims should be done at this age if you are expecting the puppy to work. Just consider what a complicated growth process is in force. In my puppy which was 15 lbs. at 8 weeks, became a 76 lb. dog and close to 65 cm. by the age of 8 months (just 6 months a 61 lb weight gain). I was so careful not let him jump up, jump in the car, jump out of the car because I thought that if there was a hip problem I would not contribute to it. I would have never allowed him to do the stressful work of jumping at a helper without making sure his hips were clear. I had him X-rayed at 8 months by a local veterinarian without any anastheisia. And from then on we picked up his exercise regimen for the sport and for the showring. I still do everything in my power to reduce stress to the rear, just because I am conservative. He has in the meantime been x-rayed at 18 months and gotten an A2. One hip perfect but a shadow on the other that is not "perfect". But this was not a result that came from his environment. Please x-ray the puppy as a precaution. Sunny

Sunshine, Lady Sublime! (see Hitler's Blondi), I cannot but wonder as to whether delta is actually speaking of hip problems as such here. It seems to relate more to physical construction of croup itself. The fact he can't sit or drop properly at 9 months would greatly worry me, to be honest. I struck pup (not bred by me, I hasten to add) with similar problem, but there I think it was due to being extraordinarily cow-hocked: I ended up giving it away as a pet! I have some doubt also of benefit or efficacy of x-raying at that a tender an age to prove hip fitness, or otherwise, considering the many variables involved, but happy to defer to your obvious greater experience and that of your vet. Here is question to demonstrate my ignorance: how exactly does US hip/elbow dysplasia scoring system work?

Just a simple question dear Peter, however? Why subject a puppy to something without having some idea of the hip status? Considering the age of the pup and the growth spurts, would it not be wise to rule atleast one obvious sympton out? If the pup shows pain he just should not be worked in the SchH sport. Or am I mistaken? Why not do prelims? Sunny

Sublime Lady, I think it's totally accepted that no pup under 12 months ought to be exposed to undue physical activity. My problem twofold: firstly, does x-ray at young age realy prove that much? Secondly, even if perfect, before 12 months, pup shouldn't be over-exercised regardless. Don't mind me: I'm a natural teaser! What about my little US H/E Dysplasia question. I'm far better-looking than Crocadile Dundee (the poor schmuck!). Last I saw him was decades ago in Sydney restaurant: sloshed out of his mind, slumped over the table, and crying into his beer over something or another - the sook!

Hi Patrishap, I think if you are considering showing and training the dog, the prelims help make decisions for the future of you and your dog. Not more or less. Why show a young dog if on the prelims it is obvious there may be a problem? I was recommended to do it at 8 months rather than at 6 months as those extra 2 months give a much better status. I don't know but I can tell you that I was relieved with the results and the worry about my pup's loose hocks at the time became a non-item. We are located on the East Coast of the USA. Sunny

I agree with Sunshine, that puppy should be xrayed and he is old enough for a preliminary. A few months ago we had a similar discussion here and it was pointed out the AKC will evaluate the hip xrays on a pup as young as 4 months with a very high rate of success. There is also Penn Hip. I haven't bred GSD's, but I do breed another large, heavy boned working breed that is prone to HD. At 6 months of age I xray each puppy kept for breeding/showing and those that were OK at that age ALWAYS got their OFA certifications after 24 months and I never had a fair. Reluctance to sit squarely is a sign of hip dyslasia. I'd have to also question the wisdom of physically working any dog much under 15 months unless no high impact exercises are included. Before that age, there could be permanent damage to the underdeveloped joints of a youngster. Better to make sure the dog is physically sound and mature before expecting so much. Let them be puppies.

Enough already, Sunshine and Blitzen! Unlike me, you've have both learned to turn early x-raying into a viable tool. I've learned something useful (which is why we 're all here), and will consider it myself. Here's a wellnigh unanswerable poser though: when I see a bunch of exuberant pups at fierce literally head over heel play, I squirm at thought they may be damaging their young joints. How do you protect such pups from themselves?

Hi Peter! I never raised a litter and can't answer that one. And I also know you cannot keep the pup completely out of harm's way. But what you can do is make sure that no undue stress is put on the young dog with for example allowing the pup to jump on its hind legs for a ball/frisbee, leap in and out of a car, climb steps. My goodness raising a puppy has lots of risks and I guess that is why everyone says, an 8 week old pup is a crap shoot. When you finally get them to the vet for their prelims you already feel like you conquered the odds that that little guy did not break a leg in the meantime or have to be operated on because he swallowed a stone. By the way tomorrow is Thanksgiving in this country. A personal Happy Thanksgiving to you! Sunny

Thanks Sweet Sunshine, Points well made - can't disagee with any of it (you'll end up spoiling all my fun!). I can taste the cranberries - enjoy. Regards - Peter.