frozen semen - Page 1

Do you think the SV will ever endorse the use of frozen or chilled semen? I myself would never ship a bitch to Germany for breeding, not a chance. Others must feel the same way. As far as I can see, not allowing frozen or chilled semen benefits only the German's, certainly not breeders in the US. What is the reason for banning the use of frozen or chilled semen? Your thoughts?

Most horse registries allow it now....but the Thoroughbred industry does not...here are reasons commonly cited: 1. too easy to mix up containers at any point 2. makes popular animals too easy to access, concern for long term shrinking of gene pool [has done this in Standardbred industry] 3. lower/indeterminate sucess rate as opposed to live cover 4. keeps Americans coming back with cash for popular and winning lines which are produced with limited numbers - marketing/prices can be kept higher with fewer available products - i.e., law of supply and demand

Fourth point is my conclusion of course!!! And not only Americans, but all buyers...

I think a good policy would be to continue to ban active breedings by semen (except in unusual cases - might be useful for remote location breedings on a limited basis, etc), and to start to keep an inventory of active stud semen so that the breed would have access to genetics over time. For instance, this semen could be used to remedy problems that may have occured in the breed due to various fads, etc. or to remedy health issues from the gene pool becoming too tightly concentrated. How many people would love to have access to a stud like Mutz von der Pelztierfarm to improve their working characteristics. Or, in cases where the breed has seen too far a swing in one conformation direction, sires noted for producting counter-characteristics could be allowed to be bred via semen, etc. I think of it as insurance for the GSD. --Alan...

I know of a number of litters produced using frozen semen, one from a dog whose semen was collected and frozen in the early 80's, the litter was normal sized. In today's world, most frozen breedings result in puppies and chilled semen has an even better production record. Using chilled or frozen would most likely never be any cheaper than shipping the bitch acrossed the ocean; it would just be far more convenient for the owner and, more importantly, far more safer and comfortable for the bitch. More in the US would use the top dogs in Germany, but not to save money. I doubt there would be an saving, the price of the frozen or chilled would be raised accordingly. As far as the future results of storing and using frozen, that could be remedied by only allowing semen from living dogs to be used. I doubt the SV would be at all inclined to consider storing frozen for future use when they won't allow frozen or chilled from living dogs to be used. Some I know collect their best dogs and store the semen for future use while others feel if that dog hasn't produced a viable son that is as good or better, why bother? In breeds with smaller gene pools, freezing and storing for future use could farther decrease the gene pool. However, using frozen or chilled from living dogs as an alternative to shipping a bitch acrossed the ocean seem to me to be a good thing. I just can't see the downside or why the SV will not endorse it. I'd much rather pick up a container at the airport than put my favorite GSD on a plane bound for Germany. IMO, it benefits none of us or our dogs.

When using AI you can too easily produce more pups from lazy breeders then there would otherwise be. Or produce pups from females that otherwise cannot be bred naturally. In other words the temptation is huge to breed animals that naturally could/would not. We already have a population of dogs plagued by all sort of problems. There is no need to intruduce more of them. Next, in order to ensure that the right dogs goods are sent you would probably need an SV official present at collection. Or have the vet verify the dogs identity at collection. Regulation of what dogs can be bred that way, if and when etc., is probably a good reason why the SV is staying away from it. It would be a beaurocratic nightmare. SV fees would go up again, because they would probably have to hire a new person just for handling that area. There are many good dogs from Germany in the US already. Why not go there? Or import a female pregnant to the stud dog in mind. Gives (almost) the same results. If stud dog owners would consider it an option, it would be easy enough for them to go to fertility clinics in Holland or Belgium, or have semen frozen when they visit the US at shows. In the last scenario, a stud dog owner can get an AKC registration for the dog, store semen, follow AKC breeding rules, done. Once the pups have AKC papers they can also be USA registered. So the SV would not even be involved. Its not rocket science. But there must be a good reason why the stud owners are chosing not to go this route...

Personally, buying yet another bitch to get a litter from a male is not an option. I want to work with the bitches I own, that I know, and with which I have a plan in process....as a small hobby breeder, if I just had to have a progeny of a certain male, I might buy one, but not a pregnant female. The availablity of many lines and dogs is limited here in teh US in working lines, there is a surfeit of certain lines, and alternatives are hard to find. As far as sucess rates, I work with Dr. Hutchinson in Cleveland, and have semen stored from a Belgian male for future use, as when I want to use him on my 1.5 year old female, he will probably no longer be available as he is 8 or 9 now. I have discussed the sucess rate, and am aware that while he is very successful, there are still a good percentage of failures using frozen. Also, having bred horses AI, fresh chilled is much easier to work with and more sucessful than frozen, and mares are much easier to "catch" at the exact right time than dogs. I think that with DNA requirements, and that limiting a male to X number of shipped collections a year could make the process doable for at least doing foreign breedings of European based dogs. I am presently discussing several options of males in Europe via Canine Biotech.

Considering the distances in North America sending semen certainly makes sense. Fresh chilled is the least cumbersome, for domestic shipments anyways. Most vets can do it, or breeders themselves once they have the experience. It is a lot easier for the bitches owner and the stud dogs owner. I think that is what it comes down to - convenience. Frozen is not as convenient though. That fresh or frozen AI is cleaner I guess has several males with 90 breedings a year without any major infections or other complications proving the opposite. With proper management it is obviously no problem. If a female cannot handle the "stress" of a natural breeding IMO she should not be bred. AI with frozen semen on the other hand is stress for the female. The semen is inserted directly into the uterus. Which is a surgical procedure. Regardless how routine it may be, any surgery bears risks and is stressful for the dog. AI with frozen semen does not have as good a success rate as fresh chilled. It is far more complicated, never mind the expense. First of all you need a special clinic equipped to handle the task at the stud dogs end and the female end. Not every male's semen is suitable for freezing. The clinic that looks after the stud dogs end usually checks that. They thaw out one of the straws and check how viable the thawed semen is. When all seems to be working well, usually two straws of the frozen semen need to be used for a better chance of conception. The clinic used to inseminate the female at needs to have the proper equipment to receive and store the containers with the frozen semen, thaw out the semen properly and be able to insert it properly. Your average vet will NOT be able to do that. Next, timing is absolutely crucial here as the thawed semen does not survive as long as fresh semen. Conception pretty much has to take place right away for it to work. There have been some very interesting results in doing linebreedings back to a dog long gone whose frozen semen was used. I am tempted to have one of my own dogs collected for later use. It just makes me wonder if we are not stalling the natural progress here though. To do that the odd time is ok, but to always use that crutch to fall back on seems a bit counterproductive to me. The one thing that will never happen is the next generations not being used as much, because you can never store enough semen of the existing dogs. Also, people DO want that new generation. Lets say we would continue to use semen of the most popular dogs today for the next 10 years or so - there would be absolutely no progression in the breed. How boring!

DH - I agree with much you say in the broader sense. In my case, I will am not looking to use AI because the female will not or can not do a breeding naturally. but given the big money involved in certain segments, I know that is a legitimate concern. Nor would I want to use a male via shipped fresh or frozen who was not a proven sire...the first breeding with my own male was overseen by a local AKC type experienced breeder. He was shocked at the libido of the male, being prepared for a 2 or 3 hour ordeal....apparently, he has experienced more males who won't cover a female live, and have to be collected and AI done on site. I was told this is very common in his area of interest and personal experience...a breeder of 20+ years in the AKC ring. This behavior is indicative of the legitimate concerns we all voice about the availablity of shipping semen. My concern is finding an ideal match to my own females, without falling into the "flavor of the month" or a dog who is convenient. I feel that we have a narrow range of bloodlines available here. If I have to travel accross the US, I may as well use shipped semen. My own male is not compatible bloodline wise with my proven female in my plans, and is a half brother to another of my females. I don't like to limit myself to my own dogs, [although I have purchased one female to breed to him]. Part of the problem here is that few people breed outside their own kennels, and although there have been a few dogs I find would work, they either are too far away or want to sell me another female bred to their male rahter than a stud service. Going to the airport is much easier than flying accross the United states...the cost of the vet work is probably equivalent to that of shipping the female to the west coast! Shipments are generally delivered directly to the vet's office, and with blood work, and a "teaser" male, doing an AI at the vet clinic 100 miles away is still easier than travelling for both female and owner.

Not all males require teaser bitches, some will cooperate with or without one, but it's a good idea to have one on stand-by just in case. I've had my own males collected with very little ado and no teasers present and, during the time I worked as a tech, I saw plenty of males collected that way. IMO it's all about the safety of the bitch. The airlines do not seem to be getting any better at shipping dogs and keeping track of where they are than they were 10, 15 years ago. Lately some of my friends have had horrible experiences with Delta losing their dogs and having to deal with uncaring airline personnel. If you can't go with the dog on the fight, it's a crap shoot whether or not she will get there unharmed. If one wants to be a purist about natural breedings, then bitches should not be fed hormones to come into standing heat or to carry a litter to full term either. Bitches needing sections should not be bred again; bitches that absorb litters should not be bred; bitches needing hog tied and muzzled to accept a male should not be bred. AI's are only part of the big picture when it comes to using methods other than natural breedings. The jury is still out for me whether or not is it prudent to freeze and save semen for the future. On one hand I can see the value of it, on the other I can see the downside.