Ban On E-Collars. - Page 1

Where do you stand and why?

This should be a good one. :)

First, untrained dogs are the biggest problem for all dog owners. We feel the effects when we go to a park, get home owners insurance, and in many other places. Proper use of training techniques, which will include negative re-enforcements must be done with the welfare of the dog and public percecption in mind. Educate the public on how necessary training is and what good training involves. Ellect politians with brains enough not to get hoodwinked by the anti-pet crazies.

I think they should be sold to ONLY a certain level of skill to informed and educated trainers. They can be very useful if used correctly. Or better yet, issue a special training course on how to use them to anyone that buys them mandatory to be taken by all... Yeah I like that one. Nan

I read that there might be a proposed international ban on e-collars and possibly other training tools at the upcoming WUSV meeting September 5, 2016. I will post what I read next.

If the idea and purpose of Banning the E-Collar is to stop abuse of animals...then this is another FAIL...
People have been abusing animals for a very long time without E-Collars...So this is an attempt that just won't work...
People are the problem...I know some people who will abuse a dog with or without an E-Collar...But then I also know some that can use an E-Collar for Obedience from the very beginning to a High Level...
And then where's this gonna lead...I mean are we gonna stop Ranchers from using Cattle Prods...
More laws on more people just another way to control people...
If we want to control the abuse of animals then enforce the "animal rights" laws that are already in place...And prosecute the people who hurt and/or abuse animals...
Why are we always trying to put band-aides on problems instead of going after the root cause of them...

~Bob~

United Schutzhund Clubs of America

 For the German Shepherd Dog

*** Important Issue ***

 

Good evening. USCA as well as all WUSV member countries are faced with what we view is a very significant rule that may be proposed at the upcoming WUSV meeting on September 5, 2016.

 

WUSV member clubs may be asked to vote on an e-collar (and possibly other collars) ban that legislates not only official events, but also private training, with serious consequences to both dog and handler should evidence surface showing use of the banned collars. That would mean that any member pictured with a banned collar, at any time, would be in violation of this rule.

 

USCA opposes such a ban or any other that legislates training and is inconsistent with the laws already established in the United States.

 

I ask that each of you read, consider, and share the following memorandum that expresses what I believe to be the correct course of action.

--------

Dear Friends of the German Shepherd Dog:

 

USCA has been made aware of a movement toward a WUSV rule that imposes an international ban on the use of e-collars and possibly other training devices. USCA strongly opposes such restrictions for the reasons explained in this memorandum, which is addressed to our members and all WUSV organizations. Through its existing rules, USCA actively supports the continued progress of our programs through responsible and humane use of training methods. USCA asks the WUSV to reconsider this notion and urges other WUSV organizations to join us in support of our opposition.

 

1. USCA opposes any international rule that would dictate directly or indirectly what is or is not lawful in other countries. Unlike Germany, there is no legislation restricting e-collar use in the United States or in the majority of WUSV member countries. However, animal abuse is unlawful in the United States and in most, if not all, WUSV member countries. Legislation directed to equipment cannot prevent abuse, as any training method can be abused. Our AKC has adhered to this position for nearly two decades, "The AKC recognizes that special training collars may be an effective and useful management device, when properly used ..." USCA does not intend to impose a rule on our members that is legal in our country.

 

2. USCA opposes any international rule that governs training. To our knowledge, there has never been such a rule. There are rules, policies, and procedures that cover what is and is not allowed at official events. Further, the rules have given direction to our judges to reward performance that evidences joy, harmony, and motivation. One only has to look at performances from just a few years ago to see the major impact this has had. This current standard of evaluation of a dog's performance, strongly based on devotion to the handler with a free and natural performance showing no stress or avoidance in the execution of the trial exercises accomplishes the objectives and eliminates the need for training method specific bans.

 

3. This proposal would not accomplish the goal of eliminating abuse and could have probable unintended consequences. IPO rules have evolved for a variety of factors to support evolving goals such as speeding up the events, eliminating pieces that add no value, keeping up with increasingly better training, and evidencing increased control of our dogs. This final goal would be nearly impossible without the use of specific collars and methods; banning them could lead to dogs that no longer present such a controlled picture to the public. Further, without changing the rules to allow for less control, it may push trainers to use methods that truly are not humane. Inhumane treatment of animals stems not from methods or devices, but from the people using them. USCA supports the education and humane use of training methods and will continue to support the development and continuous improvement of training practices and overall trial pictures that are both harmonious and controlled. 

 

Finally, and contrary to the opinion recently expressed, we applaud and support the lifetime achievements of our member, Debbie Zappia. We take great exception to the negative reference to her and a picture of her with an e-collar on her dog. Debbie is one of the most caring, developing, innovative, fair trainers to ever participate in our sport and more broadly, in all of dog training.

 

Further, she is an unbelievably generous coach, who is willing to share any and all information to which she has access. Anyone who has ever had the pleasure of working with Debbie has witnessed the thousands of repetitions with minute, broken down pieces of an exercise to ensure that her dog completely understands. We would invite anyone to review every performance of Iron and spend time with Debbie and Iron to witness the incredible bond and superior relationship she has with her dog. There is nothing inhumane or unfair in what she does. Insinuation that she is inhumane, if that was the intent, necessitates an apology. USCA and its members respect the SV, WUSV member organizations, the WUSV, and the WUSV President for their dedication and fully appreciate their highest regard for the German Shepherd Dog. USCA joins with them by consistently promoting responsible and humane training, showing, and competition. USCA has developed and implemented policies and safeguards that are commensurate with the standards of the finest working dog organizations in the world to educate, enforce, and protect the safety of both our dogs and membership. These include, but are not limited to: An Aggressive Dog Policy, Helper and Track Layer Programs, a Judges Program, funding for regional education, and training seminars to provide continued education. Further, USCA members have attained great levels of success in show and performance trials including the current 2015 World Champion, many WUSV and FCI World Championship teams, regional/club/national events, demonstrations, and seminars. We firmly support and applaud these accomplishments of our members and recognize the skills they have demonstrated in balanced and responsible training. However, USCA strongly disagrees with any proposal for rules, policies, or procedures that would legislate the choice of training equipment. That would be a dangerous path, would not prevent abuse, ignores our progress, and should be rejected. 

 

I thank each of you for time and effort in reading and considering the views expressed within. We ask that you, regardless of your position of support or dissent, communicate your member clubs' position to Dr. Henry Messler. We know that he is a thoughtful, dedicated, and open-minded individual, who will appreciate the feedback for a greater understanding of the sentiments of the WUSV member countries with regard to this issue. 

 

Sincerely,

Jim Alloway

President - United Schutzhund Clubs of America

That's very ugly. I'm not sure why my copy/paste messed it up. I'll clean it up in edit.

The SV would have never banned the E Collar if it wasn't for the German Government banning it first.

You can buy and sell the E Collar, it's just illegal to use them. The trade of E Collars is flourishing in Germany and yet the E Collar is "Banned".

What a joke.

Everyone knows it's being used. But it's not being used in the open. There are very prominent SV Judges that hooked American people up with E Collars, Cattle Prods and whatnot but it's all "oh so illegal" and "unethical" and the health and wellbeing of the breed has to come first.

I can only laugh at the hypocrisy of the SV and WUSV.

If it wasn't against the German Animal Protection Act the SV wouldn't have banned the collar. At least I doubt it would have happened.

So yeah... what a frickin farce!

Good for the USCA to oppose the ban. And if the WUSV goes through with it, I hope they break with the SV.

I don´t think it´s a joke....

I guess ( ! ) Switzerland and Austria will vote for the ban, the other member countries should be free in their decision.

The votes are given due to the amount of members within the countries, that said

Germany 66 votes
Austria 8 votes
Switzerland 6 votes

according to 2011, I wasn´t able to find current numbers, but I guess they didn´t change much, if at all.

The other countries, if working together, are able to "overrule" us, difficult, but possible.

http://www.schaeferhund.dk/files/WUSV%20referat_sieger.pdf

not all of the member countries are listed, but you are able to get an idea

Personally I am no fan of e-collars, when used by stupid handlers, or when used for "the last point".
These people are responsible for the ban ( by law, not by SV ) in my country. They DO abuse dogs, no matter their personal justification.

The result was that NONE of us is allowed to use e-collars any more, not even for a safe recall, for educating a hunter, for a dangerous dog...

Baerenfang is right, most of the top trainers, and some of the jackasses still use the e-collar, but avoid to be seen using it...

My opinion: There is no reason to use an e-collar for points = in sport, but in some circumstances it´s useful, always has been.

I´d vote against this proposal, not because of points, but because of good training.

(Just my personal opinion, nothing else )
 

 

My problem with the proposed ban on E-Collars is the ignorance which is driving it. Some just assume that the E-Collar is the "bigger stick" only used to punish a dog and that products like: flat, choke, martingale & Halti (or other nuzzle) collars are some how more humane. ALL training tools can and are consistently used in a abusive manner. Look at how many ignorant dog owners out there still till this day hit their dogs with rolled up news papers or magazines, how many still "rub their noses in it" to teach potty training. Or my favorite, cause so much stress through confusion by trying "clicker" training but are not fair, clear and consistent in their communication.

For those of us living in the Southwest, the use of an E-Collar is paramount in applying enough pain ONE time in rattle snake avoidance training. This is a perfect time to apply a lot of non injuring, non personal pain where the dog associates it with the smell/site of a rattle snake. Or maybe we should clicker and free shape that with a dog with healthy prey drive :) My point is there is absolutely a good point in time to use E-Collars, even when going for that "last point". E-does not always equate to pain, most times its a physical non personal mark of a point in time.

Its this same ignorance that drives people to continue to use the phrases "Positive" & "Negative" wrongly so often when talking about behavior, stimuli and consequence. Most people try to attach morality/emotions to the meaning when in fact the terms are just description of mathematical aggregates.
Example:
A man is walking in the rain and decides to use an umbrella. The use of the umbrella is a NEGATIVE as it removed the rain.
A child smiles in response to wind blowing in their hair and then gets punched in the face for it. That is a POSITIVE as pain is added