Diet for struvite crystals - Page 1

Urinalysis on my 9 year old suspected DM GSD turned up a lot of struvite crystals. Did an ultrasound and her bladder looked like a snow globe with all the crystals. Thankfully nothing big. Of course vet wanted to put her on a Royal Canin prescription food but I nixed that idea. She is on cephalexin to clear up any infection.

She gets The Honest Kitchen Force (chicken) or Love (beef) supplemented with either raw ground turkey or ground beef, raw whole egg (shells and all from my chickens) and yogurt. She also gets Vitamin C and E, cranberry, curcumin, coconut oil, krill oil, Duralactin & Dasuquin. I guess I could add that she gets horse and chicken manure on a regular basis (yum, yum).

Have read some articles on the crystals (Whole Dog Journal, Mercola) and was wondering if anyone has experience with this with their dogs. Did a change in food help? Contemplating going to the nutritionist at the rehab were she goes for underwater treadmill therapy.

I think you might want to stop the manure eating. I just read the Wiki on Struvite because it sounded like something that was more common to cats. It most definately can be managed with diet and I would suspect the manure eating as the culprit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struvite

 

Further investigation shows this product:

 

https://www.wag.com/cat/p/solid-gold-supplements-berry-balance-3-5-oz-118174?utm_source=Wag_SG&utm_medium=PDP_SG&utm_campaign=wa-sg-to-mobile&utm_term=solid%20gold%20berry%20balance%20supplement%20for%20dogs

Not quite sure how the manure eating is the culprit. Could you explain how you think it is? She is actually eating less manure over the past year due to the DM than she has most of her life.

I was thinking of trying the Mercola bladder health product:

http://shop.mercola.com/product/1138/1/bladder-support-for-pets-270g-per-bottle-1-container

Struvite urinary stones and crystals form readily in the urine of animals and humans that are infected with ammonia-producing organisms. They are potentiated by alkaline urine and high magnesium excretion (high magnesium/plant-based diets).

Chicken manure especially will be high in ammonia. It is the ammonia compound in fertilizers that are used to make home made bombs, that has got me thinking the manure eating is the culprit.

That link to the Berry supplement was also recommended from a holistic pet treatment site.

More research reveals this:

Other plant sources for magnesium are organic materials (compost), animal dungand plant material. The more magnesium taken up by the old plant material, the more will be available again for new crops. Cation Exchange Capacity, called CEC,

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2350#b

 

If she *truly* has DM, an auto-immune component has been implicated- if that's the case, that could be the cause of the bladder issues as well, ie, not something specific that you're doing or not doing or she's doing or not doing. A friend had a puppy who had severe bladder infection to the point where his kidneys were becoming inflamed. Lots and lots of antibiotics, and nothing was working. It was an e.coli infection. I gave them a supplement to try on him that I use on my elderly horse and my old dogs for immune boosting and general pathogen-reduction and amazingly, 10 days on it, and his C&S came back NEGATIVE for the first time in months. It was previously 10,000+. I thought the stuff worked, obviously, but I was blown away by how quickly it solved a problem that had been getting worse for months despite antibiotics.

I have used it on Simon (10yr old APBT) to shrink a tumor prior to removal, twice now. Both times it has worked and they were able to be removed with clean margins in very bad spots.

Here is a podcast on the supplement: http://whoapodcast.com/russell-smith/

They're talking about horses, but especially toward the middle and end, if you're a health nerd like me, it gets really fascinating.

Jenni,

If it is DM, the inflammation is in the spinal cord. The bladder control will go. This is a problem with crystal formation not auto immune. There is an imbalance in the urine creating the condition favorable for growing struvite crystals. If the imbalance through diet and increased hydration can flush the system and alter the favorable crystal growing condition, then the issue can become under control.

We are talking chemistry, here. Struvite loves ammonia and  magnesium both found in chicken and horse manure. It only makes sense to eliminate these sources. Occam's razor.

 

 

Could you explain in more detail why you say, "suspected DM".

I am skeptical, because the progression is very predictable, if it is present.

Vets prescribing antibiotics and steroids as the first line of defense is part of the protocol. When they don't work.... well, been there.

I really care not to debate you, but the body, when working optimally, has ways of regulating chemistry. The chemical make-up of something you eat is not necessarily the same chemistry that substance has after processing. Struvite crystals are NORMAL in dogs. They are controlled by keeping the pH slightly acidic. Also, urine pH is heavily influenced by the liver, another huge player in overall health, and another reason I think pathogen reduction and overall immune boosting are in order and cannot hurt at this point.

Additionally, "DM" is not that simple. Since the dog is alive, we don't know if it's DM, and that's really neither here nor there anyway. There is no satisfactory consensus on DM, what it is, or what causes it in GSDs, so let's just forget about that.

I merely offered an idea that has helped dogs I know personally- a few of them rather dramatically- in the urinary tract health department as well as overall immunity. The OP is free to do as she sees fit with the info offered.

 

To the OP: I would be feeding enzymes, especially if your dog is eating manure. My "must haves" not only for seniors in general, but especially with health concerns are digestive enzymes and probiotics, as well as keeping the liver in optimal condition. I use Mercola Probiotics for Pets and Mercola Digestive Enzymes for Pets- both products have very very high potency. 

 

Here is a page with some less conventional info on struvites since you are rejecting the vet's suggestions on diet (I am not blaming you- just stating a fact): http://www.crystalsindogurine.com/supplements.html

Jenni, I am not debating you. I speak from the voice of experience.

There are PROVEN diets that exacerbate struvite crystal formation. There are PROVEN diets that eliminate these conditions.

If that is what gets discounted, for your style of talk, so be it. I hope the best for the dog.

Beetree - As Jenni78 alluded to the only way to say it is definitely DM is after death. That's why I wrote suspected. She is well into the DM progression -- can no longer walk/stand. What are the PROVEN diets that eliminate the crystals? I am trying to stay away from the Royal Canin and Hills stuff as I just don't understand how a bunch of rice and corn could help.

Jenni78 - I actually have been using the Mercola probiotics and enzymes for quite some time. Forgot to list them.

I will look into the different links and supplement recommendations.