What colour should I expect from a solid black male Margman Yes and a sable female Roxy von Sofanga? - Page 1

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doga demirel

by doga demirel on 11 January 2017 - 10:01

Hello guys, The male is SG32 - 2015 BSZS and the female has several local and international successes, so this breeding is very important for me.

What do you think about the possible colour outcomes...

Here are the pedigrees of the parents.


An image


An image
Thank you.


by Reliya on 11 January 2017 - 12:01

The puppies will either be black and red or sable. All will carry the recessive black gene.

doga demirel

by doga demirel on 11 January 2017 - 12:01

Thanks for the answer,

I bealive I will get black pup also.
But I am curious if I will get darker sable, large saddle or bi-colour puppies.

by Swarnendu on 11 January 2017 - 13:01

Unless I have overlooked, didn't find any self-black dog in dam's seven generations of ancestors. Most are tan-points.

So, I agree with Reliya that you're very unlikely to get any black pups from this mating, you won't even get a bicolour I'm afraid.

If you've planned this mating mostly because of colour, you're going to be very disappointed.

by anawd on 11 January 2017 - 13:01

The sire is in the line of WGSL shepherds that is believed to be dominant black, not the recessive black we are used to. If this is the case there could be black puppies as only 1 gene would be needed for dominant black, rather than the two needed for recessive black. Otherwise the sire wouldn't be able to be black either as I doubt you'll find any black dogs in Landos' pedigree either.
So likely there will be black, sable, and black & red puppies. My guess would be that the sables will be patterned red sables.

by beetree on 11 January 2017 - 13:01

This claim of the Dominant black is highly suspect. And supposedly it comes from a Russian breeding that could indicate another breed was used that carried Dominant black.




by Jenni78 on 11 January 2017 - 14:01

I don't know enough the dominant black to say whether it's impossible and comes from another breed, so that aside, going on what I know of GSD color genetics (the non-controversial ones, lol), you would get mostly sable pups, some patterned, and some blankets. All will carry recessive for black. Bicolor is possible, if pups get mom's black and tan gene and dad's black, but it doesn't happen that often in a breeding like this. In fact, I've only ever gotten one bicolor pup in a case where one paren't wasn't a bicolor. Both parents were sable, all pups (8) were sable except one bicolor male, who obviously got mom's black and tan and dad's recessive black. 

by beetree on 11 January 2017 - 15:01

by Swarnendu on 11 January 2017 - 17:01

Interesting threads beetree, thanks.

The ped of the sire shows black dogs in all the generations. So, it can be any of heterozygous dominant or recessive black.

If it's dominant, I'd suspect another breed, unless proven otherwise, but the OP will likely get black pups. 😉

by 1GSD1 on 11 January 2017 - 20:01

Personally know of a litter out of Yes and there were blacks and black and red/tans. Dam was show lines. There was not any black recessive behind her. So I will say blacks and sables in your litter.

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