linebreeding - Page 1

I mate checked my male & female on this site, and it came back as 3-3 on one dog. Is that too close to breed? Thanks R

3-3 is is alright (I personally prefer 4-4). It is the 2-2 that you need to avoid.

It also depends on what dog you are linebreeding to.

3-3 is okay, but I prefer not closer than 4-5. I could be incorrect, but I think the hard rule with the S.V. is that nothing can be closer than 2-3. And, as GSDFan said-it depends on the dog and how well he reproduces himself. Bob-O

Brittany could you help me better understand linebreeding by explaining why one should avoid a 2-2 as say opposed to a 2-3 or 2-4. Also why is your preference 4-4 over any other combination. What is considered to close or to far apart? My thoughts are inline with GSDfan concerning which dog your breeding to and what characteristic you're trying to enhance. My understanding is that even if you are breeding to a stud that has the characterisic you want, doesn't mean it will show up in the progeny. I believe the stud must be proven to show what characteristics he will reproduce.

In my opinion I would try to avoid close linebreeding as much as possible. Mainly because I don't have very good knowledge of genetics. Linebreeding should be done with intent to bring out a specific trait, not just because two dogs just happened to be related. Some far linebreeding may be difficult to avoid just because some Seigers are so extensively used it is hard to find a pedigree without them. But I personally would not linebreed that close without the guidance of someone with a great understanding of genetics and of the dog being linebred to. JMO Regards, Melanie

if you breed closer than 2-2 then you are in-breeding not line breeding -- any genetics book in a library can inform you of the difference --

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/linebreeding/394752.html Here is an example(above link) of a 2-2 line breeding. The less than perfect hips would be strong in this triangle of the motherline. I am familiar with this specific example becaus 6 months ago I almost used this female's son Yimmy Van Contra, and in doing the research and getting some sage advice, I decided I did not want that strong motherline manifesting those A2 hips in the puppies bloodline and their(the puppies) progeny . That srong motherline would have brought more to the table than what the mother of the puppies brought. I was convinced that was not the way to go. A clear understanding of genetics is needed when doing any breeding and there are some good ones out there, but I was taught that as long as you are 3 generations back in your choices, it will be a "safe" breeding. I was told not to go below 3 generations until I knew what I was doing. Those mentors have a wealth of experience and I trust them without question. I do not understand the logic, "I like breeding for 3-3, 4-4, ect." The first number represents the male on that specific linebreeding and the second number represents the female on that specific linebreeding. I have never seen people looking for dogs that fit a 3-3, 2-2, 5-5, or anything else to achieve a specific male-female combination(that they like). As long as you verify the minimum 3 generation rule, what difference does it make? You normally breed for type, temperament, structure, and you pair the dogs together, based on what you are trying to achieve, and what they are known to produce. When you look at the linebreeding, it just happens to be 3-4, 5-4, 3-3, whatever. I don't get the, "I like 3-3 or 4-4 way of thinking". Just an opinion. Stephen

Linebreeding IS inbreeding!! In the beginning INbreeding WAS necessary to establish type, hips and desired temperament. Today in the year 2006, we have more than enough top dogs with V and VA structure. All of the top West German confirmation dogs originate from Uran vom Wildstieger Land and moreover, Palme vom Wildstieger Land. Palme is not only the mother to Uran but also Quando Arminius. It is important to consider when linebreeding, the linebreeding on the previous dogs. It is very important not to linebreed on the same dogs as the parents. This creates many problems including health and temperament. I would recommend if at all possible, taking two dogs of similiar type from different lines and breeding them. Please visit www.leerburg.com for books and videos by Walter Martin. There is a great depth to breeding and genetics. Close linebreeding should be left to those individuals with a great deal of knowledge of the breed. For my last litter, I bred a V-rated female of exceptional type and quality with VA Karo van de Herdersfarm. From this breeding there was no linebreeding, which allowed Karo's genetics to dominate through his linebreeding. All of my puppies are very healthy, excellent structure and have temperament far closer to working lines than show.(NO WORK!!) I believe the strength came from not inbreeding. It is essential to not linebreed everytime to allow the dogs to further their development in soundness of mind and health. To linebreed everytime will create extensive health and genetic issues. This we already see today with the small litters and show dogs with weak temperaments. It is a crying shame that so many misinformed and unknowledgable people are breeding dogs today. I hope this has been helpful. Clayton Warichak Von der Stadtrand German Shepherds Established 1992

I would have to agree with the above post when it comes to linebreeding. My personal experience with a dog I purchased from someone who believes in heavy linebreeding has proven to be a genetic headache. This guy has everything from soft ears to crypto to allergies. I also believe that with the w.German lines some breeders don't give a crap about the breed. We all want a good looking dog but what about temperment and genetics?...My next Pup I will stick with E.German/Czech lines. With all the issues I am dealing with right now because of intense linebreeding,why would one consider to go down that road again.