Got screwed - Page 1

A friend of mine purchased a Male puppy from Germany almost a year ago and was told she would recieve his papers in November. She never recieved his pink papers. The breeder said there was an issue with the co-owners (of the Dam I think) signing the necessary paperwork for the litter registration, and it had to be re-done. She stated she was expecting the papers from the SV in the beginning of Dec. then she said mid-January. She has not replied to emails since then and we still have no papers. The beautiful puppy has since come down with a skin condition that the vet says is hereditary and he recommends neutering him. We are waiting for the Vets paperwork on the condition before we notify the breeder and send the vets findings. What if anything can we do. I know there are no guarantees in Germany and I would let it go, but my friend is still pushing me to seek a replacement or partial refund (since I found the kennel for her). Any chances of this happening? If the breeder does not respond to my next email can I file a complaint with the SV, would it do anything? Thanks, Melanie

P.S. I did not handle the transaction, the owner dealt directly with the breeder.

I believe that your friend is going to have to deal with consequences of purchasing a dog from overseas assuming you reside in the U.S.A. You can write or email the SV and file a complaint against the breeder. I would advise your friend to join a schutzhund club or attend some conformation shows and meet local and national breeders from your area. There are a number of excellent breeders in the U.S.A. It seems that when you purchase a puppy or dog from overseas and you have not net the breeder or the dog you are rolling the dice sometimes good sometimes bad. In closing did your friend get a contarct of any type with the guarantee of papers?

Puppies are purchased "as is", in Germany. I know our culture says you are authorized some "redress", but the reality is she has a puppy and that is the end of it. I would go to another vet and get a second opinion(that is within her power, getting another puppy or her money back is not) and she may find out the skin condition may be based in it's diet, not in it's genes. I have said this before, if you want a guarentee in life, DO NOT start importing puppies from Germany. There is no guarentee, regardless of what you think in your mind.

First off there are no gaurantees on dogs you import. So getting a replacement is extremely unlikely. Secondly if you did not get the papers then it is highly unlikely you will get anything else. Write the SV don't know if anything will ever come of it but it will probably make your friend feel better. Then chalk it up to expierence and don't make the same mistake twice. If your friend dealt with the kennel and bought the dog then your friend really should deal with this situation themselves. Just cause you found the kennel does not make you responsible, you did not make the deal. I would notify the breeder of the vets findings but would not expect a replacement. It would just be a courtesy. So the breeder knows of a possible genetic fault. With puppies you are always taking a risk. But on the other hand if your puppy becomes the next world champion you don't have to go back to the breeder and pay him or her more money and they don't expect it. Research into bloodlines and kennels is the key to importing dogs from overseas. I import a fair amount of dogs every year and have had no real problems. This board is a great resource for reseaarching pedigrees and for asking people about kennels they have dealt with and seeing postings of kennels that have screwed people. There are excelent breeders also in the USA. But there are also alot of less then reputable ones also so beware, do your research, ask for refrences. watch out for the super great deal and for the outrageously overpriced. Good Luck and sorry to hear about your bad expierience.

EU regulations state that pets are sold with a guarnentee so stating othervise i wrong. However if germany has differrent rules the dog will proberly have grown old and died before getting a ruling in a EU court. The guarentee only cover defaults on the goods so if the default is the missing papers could be argued. However if the price is the one useually demanded for pink paper dogs the i would thing you have a case. But still i could also be argued that you should have demanded the papers beefore paying in full. I have seen before that dogs are missing papers here. Buy a dog from denmark and these problems are not exinsting. The danish kennel klub have regulations that are able to help unfortunate buyers. Understand that buying dogs are a question of trust and that you really need to examing the person and country laws before embarging on thi venture.

Though its too late for the poster, here a chk list for those searching to buy a dog: What you should get upfront to protect yourself when buying a pup? 1) Is there a contract: read the contract - if you don't like it OR the breeder refuses to provide a contract UPFRONT, yet states the contract will be shipped with the pup: SAY NO. If the contract is NOT set up to protect the dog first and foremost, but only the breeder, drop the purchase. 2) check with AKC/SV to see if the litter IS registered, IF NOT, are the Sire/Dam registered, and to whom? If they are, have the registrations faxed to you with the contract. If the sire is owned by someone else: See if they'll let you email/call them to verify a legitimate breeding took place. 3) IF NOT, and you still want to pursue the purchase, ASK the AKC/sv IF the Sire and Dam's registrations are in process? IF NOT, ask the breeder to provide an explanation or drop the purchase. 4) Research the bloodlines/types you are looking into. Are they Show or Working lines? Are you familiar with those terms? If not, keep researching. You may end up with a cross of both, still registered yet, UNproven due to the cross. 5) parentage PROOF: this one is ultimately important in this day and age of Internet Sales and the ease of cheating people out of a great dog. I'll explain: a breeder can easily, in the USA, take a litter from an UNimportant bloodline and add those pups to a smaller litter of a very IMportant bloodline and sell them for the HIGH price. We didn't invent this one, the Germans did that. And since the great invention of DNA, the Germans have implemented mandatory DNA registration of ALL breeding dogs! Excellent. And thus I've implemented this for my own tiny, but very important and rare bloodlines, as well. Its totally worth it. There are very few breeders in the USA that do this today, and I just don't understand why not... The breeders are sent a certificate with the DNA profile of said dogs, which I customarily sent with the other info above, to serious buyers. 6) DONT pay a breeder IN FULL who's litter is not even born yet. Not even a deposit. First, wait and see if the litter is born, have yourself put on the wait list, once born, sent a 20% maximum of the purchase price as an earnest money deposit AFTER they've provided the above referenced paragraphs to you. Payment in full is required by breeders BEFORE shipment, of course. But, you should be in good hands by the time all these requirements have been satisfied. And, lastly, an inexperienced buyer who doesn't speak or write German should buy from the great breeders we have here in the USA. You're paying the same, as pups from Germany are cheap nowadays, combined with shipping about the same as you would pay for a better pup bred here in the states including the shipping. AKC is a lot faster with registration matters than the SV. We are allowed to register litters AND pups online, for example. So, your homework is much quicker before your purchase is completed.

GSDfan, what is the name of the Kennel? I beleive people would like to know what Kennel this is. This would make you feel better and you would be helping other people in the process by letting all of us German Shepherd fans know the Kennel that did this to you.

Thanks to all, that is what I expected. Thanks Saoa for posting the checklist, I hope it can help others as well. Hitech, I cannot post the kennel on this board, my post would be erased by the moderator. Besides at this point I would rather give the breeder a chance to rectify the situation, and hope when I email them, they will prove to be respectible business people (regardless of the lack of guarantees in Germany). Regards, Melanie

Uh, wouldn't it just be easier to buy a dog that you didn't import? I myself would have to think twice about importing a dog from Germany unless I had some pretty good references from those I trusted or a broker to work with who had a very long and strong record of honesty. Otherwise you may as well spend your hard-earned money to buy the Brooklyn Bridge from some street vendor in NYC. If I had to go through all the items on Saoa's check list, frankly I'd be discouraged way before I even got started and would only continue if I just HAD to have an import. Why do so many put themselves through this torture knowing the best dogs are never exported and you will never get a guarantee on anything? Duh............LOL Expecting registration papers on a dog isn't asking too much. I'd think any breeder, in German or elsewhere, would consider the registration papers to be the very basic owed to the buyer. Doesn't sound like the SV intends to ever get involved in registration or guarantee issues, so this will be an ongoing topic for year to come.......I imported a dog and got screwed.