coloring ??? - Page 1

I have been doing some research but can't seem to get a straight answer...maybe there isn't one...ok if I have a black & red female mated to a black & tan male, which parents coloring will be dominant in the pups? Or is it a crapshoot?

it depends on the entire pedigree, but personally I have found that you will loose red, so you will get a black and tan with a highlight of red....also what kind of black and red are you talking about one that looks like a setter or just a normal red that you are seeing now.

yup, it depends on who's going to be dominant and what you've got in the background -- You won't know until you do it -- I've seen rather light colored dogs on the outside produce better than themselves, and dark, lets say "richly pigmenetd" dogs that couldn't carry that color across the street. Look at both sets of parents of the two partners and see not only what they look like but what the produced with others -- TYPE TO TYPE (for some consistency) is better than breeding a red giraffe to a red goat -- what good does it do you then - all you get is something that's sort of red -- better you concentrate on fronts and FEET and croups and NOT stuck on tails, and stuff like that - the color you can maintain, improve as you go. (next gen), etc. Oh, did I mention HEALTH ???

I am not doing the breeding actually, I am looking at an upcoming litter with those color pairings...they have a great bloodline...but it's so hard now to wait until the puppies are born because everyone wants deposits before hand and it makes it hard to get a puppy if you wait. The mom is deep red & black the dad is just black & tan....I guess I'll look again at the pedigrees of both...and I'm looking for the regular red that you see now... thanks for your help.

Let's try GENETICS. If you had the time or/and if both parents had been bred often enough, you could draw a matrix, with all information(coloring, faults, markings, early deaths, dieseases, ect) on both dogs and come up with a reasonable conclusion on what might transpire. If the same two dogs were mated previously, then that could REALLY tell you something. Without tracking the traits previously you basically are stuck with one undeniable truth of life...at the time of conception, when the egg is fertilized, a time bomb will start ticking and will manifest itself 18-24 months later, when the dog is grown. Genetic is fluid and without prior data, I don't think you can just make a prediction. I have a super red male (http://www.svhunde.com/stud%20service.htm), that has never produced himself, exactly in his progeny, although all his offspring have vibrant, bold, contrasting, beautiful colors/markins.

I figured it wasn't an easy answer, but you can always hope.....

brandoggy - if the parents of this litter have been bred before, look at pix of those pups and the other parent. i'm assuming this is not a repeat breeding; you would not be asking the question, but would be looking at those first pups. you should be able to get some idea of the color and pigmentation that gets passed on. johnnyk makes an excellent point in the "color(revisited)" post, which could be greatly expanded upon - basically pigment and color are related but not identical. short version of things to look for in predicting pigment of pups: do the parents have dark noses, eye rims, lips and toenails? any black spots on tongue of either parent? short version of things to look for in predicting coloration of pups: do the parents have dark topskulls? are there any white toes? is there a remnant of a white chest spot? is the tan a deep rich color, or does it fade to cream on belly or back of thighs? are the edges and tips of the ears darker than the rest of the ears? how extensive is the black saddle? any bicolors in the first or second generation, including siblings? ... hoping this is helpful (and perhaps provocative for further discussion)

Hi Brandoggy, I believe there are only two pigments here: black and yellow. The latter, including reddish or tan expression, is subject to recessive modifier genes - ie, results can differ between each genetic recombination or mating. In your case, I favour Het's notion that the red is probably the first colour to fade. Previous matings and parents' colouring must be good indication. Basically a bit of a lottery. Pineridge just feeds pups carotene agents I believe!

Thank you..Kioanes, that was very helpful. I will look at those things. It is a first time breeding, that's why I don't know about the other pups...I did look on the parents, grandparents etc..some dark some light...I think it will be luck of the draw... Does anyone know of a breeder of dark pigmented dogs that does wait until the litter is born to make a waiting list? Otherwise I will have to take what I can get..and I really want a darker dog...not a black one but one as I described above. I have found some but the litters are spoken for and the dogs haven't even been bred yet....

Pineridge, I must congratulate you on your excellent reply, wish more people thought like you. Best Regards Sue B