Qvido Vepeden progeny, health concerns ??? - Page 4

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by Hundmutter on 25 August 2019 - 06:08

More agreement than argument goin' on, I'd say !
But let's face it, some of us would be more worried about causes of structural or motor problems if they occur, than a missing tooth. Not to say correct dentition is not important in a dog if you want to breed on, but if your interest is in working ability more than conformation, there are always compromises to be made and priorities to re-order. NO dog is 100% perfect.

by duke1965 on 25 August 2019 - 08:08

Blacksable,what happened to the strongest and hardest equidius bloodline dog you wanted couple of months ago, you made quite a switch ? 


by hexe on 25 August 2019 - 08:08

Need to correct a mistaken attribution--ValK, I don't want to give you or anyone else a false impression:
I am not a veterinarian, but rather a veterinary technician of over 30 year's experience in the profession.

Blacksable, while teeth & gums are certainly something to be concerned about, your question was open-ended as to "health problems" in this dog's progeny. It is to that end I raised the point of the subtle dragging of the hind paws that looks to have developed--I'm inclined to think it could be an artifact of the training and competing, but someone considering a pup from him for work or competition should probably look into it further if they are going to want a prospect that will remain sound into the pup's middle and senior years.

It should be relatively easy to identify if Qvido is producing a statistically unusual number of offspring with dental defects, especially if the dams haven't been produced that problem when bred to other studs. In the grand scheme of things, though, it's easier to fix dental faults in a breeding program than it is to fix weakness of the spinal column, since the evidence of the teeth & gums is apparent long before a dog reaches breeding age. Spinal defects don't typically get noticed until the animal is 5-6 years old (or later) and, if it's been a trial winner, it's usually got some get on the ground by then.

by Blksableworkingdogs on 25 August 2019 - 16:08

Hey Duke.... "quite a switch" .....well we will see how these pups turn out, Im buying two males from the same litter, as for as my efforts in getting something from the Eqidius lines, yea I did give up, the man Jan Sudikak who is I believe an honorable gentleman didn't seem inclined to work with me, and allow me to buy a pick from any litters he had or upcoming.... and there is only one person here in the states that "claims" to Have Drago Eqidius" frozen semen and advertise with there web site to produce "LEGENDS"
Well these people are EXTREMELY dishonest, while they take deposits on a regular basis they seldom and I mean very seldom ever produce the promised pup, they take more deposit than pups they can produce,, kind of like people who float checks..... they use there religion and the same ole same ole excuses over and over about being sick and hospital stays, I wouldn't deal with them ever again under any circumstances. Sooooo Im buying pups from Qvido and a really strong female with a great working pedigree and from video Ive seen she has the temperament Im looking for,,,, bottom line is Im doing the best I can..... we will see how theses pups turn out.

by Blksableworkingdogs on 25 August 2019 - 18:08

Thank you hexe.... I appreciate your input, definitely sounds like you have been around and are knowledgeable about this stuff, I personally think that foot dragging thing and the other posture things I see in these responses has to do with the training... just my thoughts

by apple on 26 August 2019 - 11:08

I know different people has different opinions on a focused heel. One is that even for a dog that is operational in the police or military, there are advantages to having a focused heel. The dog is not distracted and is attending to his handler. If the dog needs to engage, he is simply sent. Then there is the issue of how exaggerated of a focused heel do people prefer. In sport, some train for the head up and even try to reinforce/train the dog to prance. That is mainly for points. Then some sports (not IPG) have handlers who do not train a focused heel. IMO, a very good, consistent focused heel is one of the most difficult things to train.


by Koots on 26 August 2019 - 15:08

Apple - you are right, a focused heel is important, but it's a matter of degrees. Some heeling is so exaggerated in position that it looks more like a 'Royal Lippezaner' horse performance than a dog obedience exercise. But even those horses are not required to have their heads up and turned to the side as the dogs are.

Also, the extreme position of the head contributes to the back-end almost dragging compared to a natural gait. Does this modified gait contribute to spinal and/or hip problems in the long-term?  Or even the appearance of such?  Perhaps so, as I can only imagine if it was us humans being so exaggerated in movement that it would affect our health.

I wonder when this trend of performance heeling started? It must have taken hold due to points being awarded for such style, otherwise why emulate it?


by emoryg on 26 August 2019 - 22:08

Here is a routine from the early 90's. Nothing fancy, but under control. She had loads of food and ball drive, just never really needed it for her to want to work. I could have fed her food or held a ball, but just being by my side with a few 'good girls' and pats on the head was all she needed. Typical pigment and bone from the earlier DDR dogs.





by Hundmutter on 27 August 2019 - 07:08

FWIW I think that looks SO much better, emoryG; I've said before that I am no fan of the exagerated position - it seemed to creep in mid-nineties, so mostly after I stopped competing in Ob.

And I see NO CARRY-THROUGH to the rear end.

Noticeably it had already happened, and was getting worse, in working competitions with Border Collies by then.

by apple on 27 August 2019 - 10:08

I think you tend to see the more exaggerated focused heel in IGP because it is the "dressage" of dog sports. I see it more in PSA with some trainers. I think some don't train it because, IMO, it is one of the more difficult things to train correctly. It takes a lot of time, accuracy, fading of the lure, usually some e-collar work, and the dog has to have sufficient drive. I don't think it contributes to structural problems in healthy dogs. In PSA, a static focused heel or recall directly to a focused heel comes in very handy because it becomes a default command to help deal with all the distractions.


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