Geocentrism and - Page 8

Shtal,

Who made God? Did he just materialize out of nowhere? So, there was nothing and all of a sudden there was God, lol. But God couldn't write the bible. Nor collect a "dragon" for the ark.

so, who made who and who turned the screw?

oh you didn't know evrything that exists must have a beginning, evrything that has a beginning must have a cause yadada.....everything except the christain god

 

"Remember Carlin, the primacies

 

everything that begins to exists has a cause, something cannot come in to being “out of nothing” but if ....answer is simply the God is uncaused"

what an irrational fool we have here in shtal.   not a fallacy of special pleading at all.

 

now that shtal has proved science is wrong (in his mind) he has but the small task of proving evry other religion in history including the 40 000 odd christain versions, all the new-age religions all the..... are all wrong

 

i would take my guide from scripture in answering shtal but which one, they contradict each other;

 

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

VK4, you are confused about those verses from Bible as much as you are confused about "definition of Science" or in other words the root meaning of science.

I am not going to go further on this thread as I said I was done but I will reply to you in ragards of those sciptures.

(Proverbs 26:4) Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him.
I have to point out to you VK4, when the Bible uses the term fool, it is not just engaging name calling, and it’s not just saying you are just a fool, okay; it is using that term to describe someone who is dense, someone who is perhaps very intelligent but he/she refuses to use intellect in the way God is intended and so when I use that term that is what I mean as well. Honestly I shouldn’t go around calling people fools, but Bible says if they haven’t accepted Biblical authority they are…I need to keep that in mind. I’m not to answer a fool according to his folly, I am not to embrace your standard, yours presupposition or otherwise what? I will be like you and your kind: And if somebody comes up to me and got silly presuppositions. And for example like you want to leave Bible out of any discussion when dealing with science, well that is silly presupposition, why would I leave the Bible inerrant word of God - out of discussion, and especially on topics that deals with origins; it doesn’t make sense. And if I leave Bible out of discussion then I will become like you, I answered a fool according to his folly and embraced your presuppositions and then I become foolish too.  Then where would I go??? I conceived what I was trying to prove and I will not go anywhere.

(Proverbs 26:5) Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own eyes.
It may sound like a contradiction but It’s NOT because the sense is different, we are not to answer a fool according to his/her folly in the sense embraces his/her presuppositions, but we are to answer him/her according to his/her folly and sense of showing were your presuppositions would go if hypothetically they were true, it’s like reflecting back your own philosophy so you can see how absurd it is and therefore it cannot be wise in your own eyes. It’s like I am not going to live in your house VK4, I am just going to step inside for few minutes just to roll furniture and then leave, and it’s just a temporary reputation roll, internal critique. And if for some reason you say to me that there are no absolutes - you can argue with me but you can’t use absolutes - because there are no absolutes, and I am not going to embrace that standard, I will not answer according to your folly but I will answer according to your folly by reflecting the philosophy back to you. Actually if there were no absolutes VK4, you couldn’t say there are no absolutes, you see how silly you are being…I am simply reflecting this philosophy back to you and you cannot be wise in your own eyes, you can see the absurdity of your own presuppositions. That said; I have no reason to continue, which is why I said I was done and made conclusion for myself of this thread.

 

Groan!

Who made God? Any Christian please feel free to answer. Shtal can't believe big bang but believes God just appeared out of nowhere. Does God have a family of Gods? Did he just fall out of the sky? Please someone just tell me who made God. Is God an alien? Carlin you have all the answers who/what/when/where was God made?

 

I am still waiting on the dinosaur answer from a Christian - if the bible is 6,000 years old and the start of life how can dinosaurs be millions of years old? How can the universe be billions of years old?

 

Waiting - crickets - more silence.

LMFAO.

 

 

Christians don't believe God is a created being. It remains my opinion that faith is necessary to hold this belief. As far as the dinosaurs, whether or not this is inconsistent for a particular Christian's beliefs would depend upon their interpretation of scripture.

Shtal, the need you feel to interpret the meanings of the words only proves your interpretation is opinion, that any can interpret it any way they read it.  It's anything but clear, it's anything but precise, it's anything but moral and it's anything but truth.  If you need guidance to know what it says, it's not doing the job it was supposedly intended to do.  And this is after copies of handwritten copies and translations of of hand-written translations.  Wouldn't a perfect being have been able to find a way to make it crystal clear, if it were divinely inspired?  It's a maze with no way out, no relief, no agreement, no logic and certainly, no respect for humanity.  It causes spite, hatred, misunderstanding and more than anything, division.  It creates and thrives on an "us vs. them" mentality, which you so beautifully display, in living color!

beetree, I thought you actually wanted to have a conversation, but you have shown that is not the case.  You'd rather deride and make fun and put everything on a track in one direction.  I, personally, thought the point of a true conversation was a path to understanding.  If you really want an answer, you must clarify what is meant by the question.  Anything else is a game.  I'm not saying I want to convince you of anything, but if you're not willing to clarify a point at the beginning of the conversation, it will never lead to understanding what is being stated.  You clearly have an agenda that you consider clever and would probably serve a purpose of deceit.  You never show your hand, but you expect all others to take snapshots of theirs, for your pleasure.  If you want an honest conversation, start with your position, honestly.

Travels, that's an awful lot of power to ascribe to mere words on paper. It may be more accurate to say that the issue is what people do with what they believe it says. In your own worldview, that would seem to indicate that this makes scripture little more than an excuse for what they would have done regardless, particularly if it is the work of men and not God. We, our condition is the cause, as opposed to "it".

Carlin, my "worldview", as you call it, is nothing more than my journey through this amazing thing called life.  My worldview has been formed mostly in the places people supposedly fear to tread.  I've been learning my whole life long, I've been in awe of the life around me, the ways it's used, abused and turned upside-down.  My worldview changes daily, with each new person I encounter, each sunrise, each love and each lesson.  Most of my lessons have been learned in a hard manner, because I've never marched to any drum but my own.  The mistakes I've made have taught me my most important lessons and those are the ones I carry with me, allow them to guide me, allow me to cause less harm and make a positive difference, as much as possible. 

Life is change, you are never promised the next second and you can never have yesterday back.  This precise moment is all you ever, truly have.  Arguing your way through the only life you really know you have is so pointless, all to prove things that shouldn't really make a difference, in the grand scheme of things.  The best we can do is accept each other and allow all to live in peace, allowed their own private thoughts when they're not intruding into anyone else's.  I try to make the most of this moment, that's my "worldview"

I need to put a P.S. on this.  The changes in my life, in my thoughts, in my actions have at times wavered between imagining that there is "more" and I can honestly say that my current opinion is not set in stone.  But what is set in stone for me is this:  What I think should make no difference to anyone else, it's personal, period.  I can't prove or disprove it, so I leave it in the realm of opinion and nothing more.  I don't make others "believe" what I believe, nor do I feel the need to do so.  But if someone is attempting to force me to accept what they "believe", they damned well better show that I will be causing harm othrewise, and not take offense to my dismissal of their assertions (opinions).  If I ever land at a point where I'm resolutely convinced there is something beyond this life, it will never be identical to your imagination, nor any book.  That would be someone else's opinion, not mine.  Why can't we muse on those things without having to drag everybody else in to the most inner thoughts that should be followed, not forced on others?  What makes your opinions more valid than anyones?  How do other opinions affect yours?  Why?  I know what I know in my heart to be right and as long as doesn't tread on others, I should be free to express it, or not.  But I don't want to be spoon fed someone else's opinion at every turn, when I really don't give a damn about it!

So beetree, there you have it, I'm different.  You can't fit me into any box, I have a box cutter :)

The only part of your wordview I am aware enough to apply here would be your belief that scripture is not divinely inspired, and I would make no assertion beyond your own admissions.

As to "peace", there are those of "us" who understand the message and example of Christ through the lenses of giving, selflessness, love, and sacrifice, in addition to that peace.