Increasing the fight while playing with the tug - Page 2

Jim,

I certainly agree that seeking knowledge on the internet can be risky.  It has the same amount of risk as does seeing knowledge from people in person.  Surrounding yourself by the same like minded people can be just as wrose if not more b/c you see them everyday and have more interaction and influence.  The only thing that makes you wise is to step outside of your box and learn from others.  Sit and listen to see what others say.  Understand why one person does one thing a certain way and why another does something another way.  Don't judge but be open minded and soak it all in.  I agree foundation is necessary but at the sametime it doesn't mean you shouldn't learn other methods as well.  In dog training everyone has a seperate way of building a foundation.  Difference is that you find out what works best for the dog and not just yourself as every dog have seen my dog (who compete  is different.

Who said I was doing everything that I see is "cool" on the internet.  I know you don't like my dogs and I am ok with that.  I got my pup from Jiri at Jinopo and he loved him as well as everyone else at the seminar.  The schutzhund club I attend and the 2 trainers that compete at Sch national levels love him.  If your not impressed with his videos at 10 & 11 months then ok, not everyone will like my dogs...I can live with that..

As you know it is no secret that I train with Hans.  I am sorry that you do not feel that he is talented enough as a trainer and doesn't understand temperament & working abilities of dogs.  In your view he and Jiri don't know what you know about dogs.  Im sure others would disagree but then you are more than entitled to feel that way.  I wish more trainers had his openess and willingness to talk about dogs and training more freely rather than some mystical art to only be shared by select few.   Any good teacher will always encourage a student to go out and learn everything they can and then come back and discuss.  I taught that to my former martial arts students & Hans teaches me the same way.  It isn't the way you do things and as with everything, different strokes for different folks.  I know you keep everything you do hidden and private and that is your style, nothing wrong with that.

I do appreciate your input.

FWIW

Ace, not to prove Jims point, but I don't know if I've ever read Hans give training advice on this site. Does Bill Ford know how to do a tune-up?

Chaz....is there a difference when the dog thrashes from side to side as opposed to pulling straight back? 
I will go back and review the footage to see how he is with the helper.

As far as Hans giving training advice on this forum...Im not sure but I wouldn't doubt it.  On his forum, yes.
As far as Mr. Ford...I have no idea.

Ace,
I was referring to the video of Barak.  Please don't think that I don't like your dogs, I haven't seen your other dog.  In that video you were directing the helper to do what "you" wanted.  It appeared you paid a fee to work your dog there and the helper went along with it since you paid.  His mistake.  A dog like Barak, with little foundation doesn't need to be working on the "turn on and turn off"  exercises you were doing.  Actually, he has some issues as all dogs do but seems bonded to you and a nice dog.  The responses that you have gotten to that video are really troubling to me.  

I don't know Jiri and I have tremendous respect for Hans' knowledge of breeding, genetics and pedigrees.  I certainly do not think I know more than anyone else and I am willing to learn from anyone.  If you train with a good SchH club with excellent trainers and helpers that is fantastic.  You still need to decide what your goals are and training in a SchH club and then going to PP work are two completely different venues with different training styles and outcomes. 

I actually don't keep anything hidden or private.  I have answered tons of questions on here and in PM's and have openly shared information.  I am willing to help anyone that has a desire to learn.  I have just stopped posting on training topics on this forum for the most part.  You can do a search and find volumes of stuff that I have posted here.  I have decided to stop giving out advice, and that has nothing to do with being private or secretive.  Chaz gave you some good suggestions and Duderino is always pretty spot on. 

Ace, I typed out a long analogy using Martial Arts as an example but decided to erase it.    My whole point is that seeking knowledge is a great thing, but you must have a basis for understanding for it all to make sense.  I would advise training with one person and learning all you can for your personal foundation, then branch out once you have a decent knowledge base.   IMO, it all becomes too overwhelming otherwise. 

Jim,

Yes, this post is about my 1 yr old as I stated while Barak is 3 years old.  As for Barak's videos goes yes they were done at the Sch club where I take my 1 yr old Jax.  I thought it would be a good way to work on some control with him with the decoy since he was willing to help.  When I got him 6 months ago he never was taught a "out" nor a "off switch".  I told the trainer that was my goal.  Jiri Novotny worked him at the seminar and while he did like him he said that he was of a little weaker nerve and had too much defense and needed some prey but at this point it wouldn't help as it probably couldn't be brought up. Issue was that he was trained incorrectly.  There was no confidence building with him as it was all defense b/c he is natural high Defense, low prey and high handler sensitivity.  He is what he is and I am not trying to change that. I'm sorry that you will go on Hans website and read but refuse to comment.  If you felt that advice there "disturbed you" and you was incorrect, you should have said so.

Yes, I know you don't feel that Hans is a good trainer.  You think he knows lines but isn't talented/good enought to be a trainer and the he doesn't know working dogs temperament & behaviors.  As with every trainer some will agree and some won't.  I probably say that it is due to the personal issues that you have with him but only you know that answer for sure.  As for Jiri, great guy who doesn't mind sitting and talking and sharing everything he knows, true class act. Yes I agree that Sch & PP are 2 different avenues and I have never said that they are one in the same.  My goals have never changed with my pup.  Have I stated that I have changed?

I agree Jim you use to give a lot of information but as of recent months you have relegated to not really posting on stuff and rather have just been more or less a random poster and have come to not add much to the board as you use to in the past.  You would voice your opinion on how the board use to be and how it is changed and in turn you have added to it.  A shame as I feel you have a lot to input and add but it is your choice.  If you have decided to stop giving advice then what was the point in posting in this thread?

I am not saying that I don't understand your point b/c I do.  My trainer has no issue with me reading about different ways to train as we talk about it and discuss them.  Any person that discourages a person from reading and talking to others is a person that I avoid.  Be like water my friend....be like water.

You missed the whole point. Occasionally, I will post on a training thread here until it goes so off topic or becomes silly. Regarding Barak, I sent you a PM with my input on what I saw on the video. I offered my advice and some suggestions. There is nothing I enjoy more than working dogs, talking about dogs, training, pedigrees and genetics For several reasons I rarely post on forums these days, especially the two you are referring to.

Ace, sorry that I don't add things up the forum anymore. What can I say. Lol. I will participate in topics that interest me and with posters that I choose to. I may chime in When I see some really bad or wrong advice given. I don't see any need or feel any obligation to do more than that.

Ace,

Jim just gave you some good advice. Take it and run. 

Jim,

I see your point I just don't agree with you. My feeling is that if you have so much to say behind closed doors why not say it on the board?  Why hide?  You call the other people who comment as giving wrong advice and not knowing anything.  Why not say that in the thread to them?  Why the hiding and lurking.  If you don't agree thats fine but be a man and state it instead of running elsewhere and claiming such.  If you don't have anything worthwhile to add then why say anything at all?

Koach,

Anything you say will be ignored.  Anything coming from a guy who wanted to euthanize a dog b/c it didn't fit up to its expectations is a not worth even listening to  Don't think I forgot that thread.