Poor trump - Page 10

GSD Admin said, "It sad that it had to be fought hard for, I think you are forgetting the struggle."

Exactly. We have had almost 2,000 years of Christianity yet women only had equal rights for a small part of that. Yes, I believe that women in the West have always had it better than their counterparts in the ME but better is a relative term and it wasn't because of Christianity they had it better. I'm sure that if someone were to research this they might find that Christianity, although not as repressive as Islam (and it's not just when it comes to women), was more repressive than some of the pagan cultures that preceded it. People use it today to restrict women's rights.

@Hundmutter.
What makes Muslim - Muslim? Adherence and belief to teaching of Mohammad. Muslims believe the Quran was verbally revealed by God to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel. Shariah law is the religious legal system governing the members of the Islamic faith. It is derived from the religious precepts of Islam, particularly the Quran and the Hadith. Adherence to sharia has served as one of the distinguishing characteristics of the Muslim faith . In its strictest definition, sharia is considered in Islam as the infallible law of God. If one does not beleive in Shariah then he is not Muslim. Thus all Muslims by definition beleive in Shariah. If they follow it in the minute details is another question. But for Muslim not believing that Sharia is law of God is akin to Christians not believing 10 commandments are given to us by God. Such thinking is not compatible with either religion.

I think the women who named themselves and their organization with "Christian" and who actually fought the fight for their equality might disagree that their Christian faith and values were irrelevent. Yes, they no doubt also benefitted from a continuum of an improved female plight of their condition from the study of Greek ethics, and all that was unveiled during the Age of Enlightenment, but it would also do well to keep the history of the "struggle" in context and not just flat out ignore the Christian aspect to their collaborations.

And still, the liberal use of the label LIberal, when such a term wasn't being used in the context of a particular era continues causing me problems. For example, isn't it more to the point of being correct, to call movements: reform or progressive, since that is what they were known as while the people lived, and not give them all a shortcut to our modern time labels? They don't translate equally through the ages unless there might be ... bias served by insisting on such a liberty of terms.

I however, would have to agree that certain Fundamental Christian interpreters of the Bible will use their interpretations to restrict women's rights, to this very day.

 

I am with beetree on this one...partially.
I explain.  This ( notisyou)  is one of the most convoluted argument I have seen. The fact is that in Christian based nations women rights were advanced consistently further and faster then anywhere else. Same is true about slavery. That is direct result of Biblical teaching of love and equality of all us in front of God which we do not see in Islam where women are lesser then man. . To turn that against Christianity takes special type of ill-logic and probably of atheistic hate. Part of such ill-logical somersault is to equate Catholicism or other organized religions with Christianity . If we accept such falsehood then such sophistry arguments look more true to person who does not know the difference.
However if we want to understand where Christianity is comming from  we must not look to how organized religion uses Bible to further their agenda. That is not what Christianity teaches. If we want to see what Christianity truly teach we must look to Bible. Bible then teaches
equality between man and women from day of creation. In genesis :
Genesis 1:27 (NASB95)
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

And it teaches that man should honor his wife.
1 Peter 3:7 (NKJV)
7 Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife,

Romans 16:1–6
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea;
2 that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and that you help her in whatever matter she may have need of you; for she herself has also been a helper of many, and of myself as well.

Anyway before I start bore you too much with quotes from Bible,  I will say that Christianity has a giant role in emancipation of women in opposition to what some may want you to beleive.

Anyway here is an intersting article on this ifyou care. 

https://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A265/the-biblical-portrait-of-women-setting-the-record-straight

Far from denigrating women, the Bible promotes feminine freedom, dignity, and honor.

I don't use the word liberal, liberally. That is what is being done today. It's the same with the word conservative. Liberalism as a codified movement goes back to Locke, the 17the century. The use of the word "liberal" to label the movement and ideology goes back to the 19th century. So it predates women's suffrage.

Did their interpretation of the gospels influence how they thought? Obviously. But it was an interpretation, not the interpretation. I believe that Europeans were not able to be induced to subjugate women as strictly as the Bible would have allowed because it was not part of their culture prior to Christianity. Christianity is not the product of Europeans or European culture. It was brought to Europe. Once there it was influenced by the existing culture as well as it influenced the culture. This is different than Islam which was created by the culture which adopted it and thus reflects their cultural beliefs and values. In short, I believe the Christian influence on the issue of women's rights and human rights in general is the result of a liberal reading of gospel.

And people who quote the Bible usually haven't read it. Read about St. Paul's views on women. In fact, an issue in the church has been the words of St. Paul vs the words of Jesus. It's an argument that Andre Gide alludes to in La Symphonie pastorale.

Also, there are no Christian based nations. In those nations labelled as such they had religious and cultural beliefs for centuries before they ever heard of Christianity. Christianity became part of the culture, not the basis.

Prager, don't tell me, tell all those Muslim women.

Christians have evidently evolved, compared to Muslims in their respective adherence to their 'books'.
How many Christians, recently, have flown commercial planes into American buildings deliberately in the name of their 'god', how many Christian pilots have flown their planes into the ocean to kill all passengers in the name of their 'god', how many Christians have blown themselves up in airports and in crowds watching marathon races in the name of their 'god', etc ? And how many Christians have made a practice of dropping gays off tall buildings, and stoning to death rape victims....all in the name of their 'god'?

What's that ? None ? That's what I thought.

"Christians have evidently evolved, compared to Muslims in their respective adherence to their 'books'.
How many Christians, recently, have flown commercial planes into American buildings deliberately in the name of their 'god', how many Christian pilots have flown their planes into the ocean to kill all passengers in the name of their 'god', how many Christians have blown themselves up in airports and in crowds watching marathon races in the name of their 'god', etc ? And how many Christians have made a practice of dropping gays off tall buildings, and stoning to death rape victims....all in the name of their 'god'?

What's that ? None ? That's what I thought."

You aren't the only one who thinks that so congrats, you've been promoted to Captain Obvious.

It is a nice deflection from Trump's comments on the Khan family and the lies being pushed by Breitbart and the Shoebats.

Locke, had a problem with coercion by religions to effect change. I see the PC police not paying attention to this, in the modern sense, where that coercion is employed with humiliation and shunning.