working showline dog - Page 1

what exactly does that mean?to showline ppl and to working line ppl?

The working dog (kkl 2) crowd seem to believe as a plurality that they have a monopoly on working ability, hence to them the term " working showline" is a joke. Unfortunately, there is some measure of truth to the assertion that some show dog breeders neglect working ability so that while the dogs all have SchH titles, those titles sometimes represent only the bare minimum of working ability. Any Intrenational show dog is a working showline dog since the rules for international registration require that parents have working titles. I personally believe that the term is mostly used to impress upon the uninitiated dog buyer the great versatility of this dog that is both beautiful and useful. I also believe that many enthusiasts of our great breed forget, or are compelled to neglect for commercial reasons, the precept that all dogs should be working dogs and all dogs should be bred for correct structure.

very good post JDH

Thx and to gsdlvr2 - yes they do. I believe many dogs are simply not trained to the level of which they are capable because they have other priorities for example shows and breedings. The loss of working ability I believe occurs because a dog with tremendous show presence, perfect movement, and excellent structure is given kkl 1 in spite of lacking drives and /or hardness.

Who's a good working show dog that's still alive? Did Cliff Huhnegrab pass his working show skills to any dog today?

And don't ever think for a minute that any GSD with normal temperament can't be trained in any capacity, that's right any capacity. Such normal GSD will display unbelievable aggression when his master or family is seriously attacked. Don't be fooled by what Capt. Von Stephanitz described as the GSD's typical docility when given proper food and attention from his master. A GSD with normal temperament (sound, calm, proud, demands respect, unbelievably smart, loyal, devoted to please his master, desirous of accomplishing tasks, unbelievably loving to his master) can react when appropriate with lightning speed and utmost aggression to defend his master. I have seen it happen a number of times and heard about it also additional times in real world situations, even in mild mannered GSDs that hardly ever bark or display aggression. This is what makes the breed unique and unbelievably valuable! When one has a GSD with this normal temperament that Capt. Von Stephanitz specified and argued for it is unmistable and one can never forget or minimize it. It is most interesting that a large section of the Captain's classic book on the GSD is devoted to the easy going nature of the normal GSD, with GSD bitches shown nursing baby deer and kittens, and laying down near rabbbits playing around the GSD. This is much better than some of the over line-bred EPI ridden, excessive prey drive controlled, crazed super long string beans called "working GSDs" and described as having extreme civil aggression as though this is a desirable trait. Any GSD with normal and sound temperament is a "working GSD", and can live in one's home with family, children and friends visiting. All should read or re-read Capt. Von Stephanitz's excellent classice book.

And here we go again...... Exelent posts, if only this would be recognized and not been beaten to death over & over again. I used to do helper work for the police, there were " show " & " workingline " dogs involved. They were all pretty much equal in the quality of work they did. There was no difference to detect, unless the particular dog was trained in a different manner, to do a different job. For instance, there were 2 show line males, that were used for drug search. They also did bitework, which was acceptebel, but the emphasiz of their training was search. And that they did just super ! I believe, if one can detect the abilitys of a single dog and promotes these findings, that dog will be a super dog in that field ! If a sportsman trains for marathon and gets great results, let him high jump and see how he will make out ! These result will not make him a bad sport, he just did not train high jumps, so therefor he will not achieve hight rankings . Regards Ulli Dresbach

This topic has been beaten to death. But eveytime it comes up the "show" camp expresses their disdain for the working group and vice versa. This would not be an issue if the show camp bred to the standard to begin with ie. over sized males, breeding for pigment (where does it say black and red is the standard), midnight trials, weak nerves, TSB for dogs that don't engage the helper. Of course I am in the working camp. Here is an example of the rediculous bias from a SV show judge toward an all black GSD. The judge was checking the tatoo of an all black female prior to an AD. The judge had difficulty reading the tatoo (done in Germany). The judge comments this is the problem with black dogs the pigment is too dark. THere is no difference in the pigment of the inside ear from my all black GSD's to my sables. Schutzhund is a suitability test for breeding. If the dog performs poorly, they are not suitable for breeding. If we leave our GSD to the show camp the GSD will go the way of the American German Shepherd. Please learn from that mistake. Kyle

Hello Kyle, i have to agree, this subjrct has been beaten to death. neverless it comes up again & again..... What i have to disagree with is the fact that you think, that if someone is in showline dogs that there is the strive to breed dogs that are not confirm with rthe standart. Guess what, so called working dog breeders do just the same as showline breeders.... put the best together and hope for the best !! As to your reference to weak nerves, have seen it in both sides.... working and show ! Look, main thing is, the dogs that we breed are healthy and fit for what we meant them to be. If i have a workingline bred dog as a family companion, i wouldnt want to much drive and ,the sooo loved civil agression, in him. If i want a dog as a service dog, i will train the dog acordingly and then there are only 2 possible outcomes : 1. the dog is capable of the task 2. the dog is not capable of the task I could not care less, if that said dog is grey, red and black oversized or not..... will it be suitible for that work or not....period ! Sorry to hear about your bad experience with a judge, the show peopel go through the same crap, nearby every show entered. Just remember, where humans judge, there will be human mistakes made ! Regards Ulli Dresbach