dog whispers in schutznund ! - Page 1

PJDogs ---your reply to me seemed a little indignant RE: dog whisperer- i won't take it personal - BUT there are a lot of new comers to the GSD/schutzhund - for their sake i will enlighten . many many Sch trainers and so called dog trainers really do miss the boat -- as 99 % of dog problems are created by humans and at the heart of those 99 %is an incorrect relationship of owner /dog incorrect - most trainers don't know or go about correcting the relationship with the thought that canines are thinking/feeling problem solving beings [i do not mean they rationalize ] - especially GSDs are thinking dogs. In solving the problems they fail often to READ THE DOG !! IN SCHUTZHUND BY FAR TOO !!-- Numerous times i have seen so called club leaders claiming 20 years + trianing fail to correctly train in protection work !! fail to temperament test /know / and read the dog as an INDIVIDUAL !!! just like the Dog whisperer they have set routines that the dog must fit to. they fail to see the needs and wants of the GSD and then be able to improvise and adapt in communication/training. So how is a newcomer able to judge and choose good clubs ?? !! one example : i know a Sch trainer working a malinois..20+ years of experience to boot . the malinois wouldn't but move to the end of the leash -- so he takes out his whip !! put the dog into voidance for a month --- WHY ??? because he didn't look at the DOG !! this malinois was a very pensive dog -- in it's mind it was sizing up the helper and then it would catapult and strike for the bite when the helper showed weakness and presented the sleeve --- the helper failed to READ __ this dog needed NO AGITATION as defined / or performed as a routine to bring it to the bite - it was willing to bite but just had it's own style - a diferent style than other dogs - i have seen other canines like this before --it is not defense behavior --- it is like a cat in the jungle , confident but just waiting for the moment to pounce without a lot of wasted energy -- this dog was almost ruined by the helper not understanding the dog -- nor did he understand a positive -positve reinforecent,a negative-positve reinforecement, a positive-negative reinforcement , and finally a negative-negative reinforcemnt --- DOG WHISPERERS -- there are plenty in SCh too !!

20+ years experience does not mean 20 years of knowledge, education, or good training. Beware if that's all someone can say to you when you have a problem. For new people, ask questions. You deserve answers. If you can't get a clear answer, ya gotta wonder what's up. Check around. Ask around. Don't get bullied. A real HELPer will HELP you understand.

I whisper to my dog all the time....don't want anyone to hear our training plan. There are a lot of one dog wonders, they title one dog to SchH3 and then they think they are Gods gift to SchH, or like Laporte said 20+ years of experience does not mean they have 20yrs knowledge, education, etc. I know people that have done things 30 yrs ago and haven't done anything since but claim 30yrs exp. Yea!....O.K. And yes ALPHAPUP many many club training directors with yrs and yrs. exp. couldn't read a dog if it was in blk and white. What I look for is someone who has raised trained and titled several dogs themselves, someone who has trained and titled the difficult dogs, someone who can take an inexperienced handler and a beginning dog and coach them to higher level trials. That means more than some one with 100yrs experience.

VHDOO / Laporte - i think you understand my meanings -- that is why i am tacken back by TV shows.. that's what they are .. shows -- you are well stated that it is the individual dog / and the interaction between owner and handler that must be adressed in problem solving and Sch -- there is no training without explaining which infers understanding of the former. -- again i have seen helpers think the dog is ready to sleeve .. just because it bites the sleeve --similarily they think just because a dog bites the sleeve it is doing protection work ____ they rely on methodologies __ they can even "in-see" that he dog really doesn't enjoy biting or true heartidly wants to bite !!! i hope newcomers check out the clubs first -- the dog whisperer , in my opinion, makes the public think that just because you have a little knowledge you are an all-round canine behaviorist

I agree with the years of expierience and the reading of dogs. This is not just in SCh but in every discipline in dog training. I have seen so called police K-9 trainers ruin a dog because they thought electric was the answer. I have seen people who are so called trainers who could not read a change in behavior on a detection dog to save there lives. In what I do overseas I see alot of handlers and so called trainers from all walks includeing law enforcement and military. Some are good, alot who claim years of expierience couldn't read a dog unless it gave a final response. My advice to people new in the dog world is if a trainer tells you he knows it all RUN. I have been doing this for years and learn something new everyday, some times from a handler, some times from the dog, but I will not ever live long enough to know it all. When you choose a new club, watch how they train, talk to them, are you comfortable around them, can they explain why they train in a certain manner. You wouldn't buy a dog without doing your homework and checking it out, so check the clubs out, see which one you and your dog fit into.

Interesting topic folks. I also believe that years in, does not equal knowledge. Just becaue you have been doing something for a long time does not mean you have been doing it correctly. I believe a good trainer has to evaluate the other end of the leash (handler). There have been many cases in our training group where we have to bring the handler up to the level of the dog. As a trainer and coach I enjoy the process and challenge of bringing up the drive level in a dog. Its nice to see a "project" dog begin to enjoy the work. Its easy to train a naturally talented dog. This type of work is not cookie cutter. You have to have more than one trick in your bag. Kyle

I don't know about "Dog whisperers" but one person I would like to mention here is Ajay singh who owns Zwinger Vom Patiala.He has his own breeding program and is VERY CLEAR on what he wants to produce. Very few people have that vision.He does not breed to popular demand and holds himself to very high ethical conduct.He also trains and titles his own dogs and has done that for years.He has competed in the nationals.He has also helped lots of people train their dogs, including me.The best part is how he thinks from a dogs perspective- this may qualify as dog whisperer.He sees a problem and comes up with creative solutions that works almost immediately.And he trains dogs differently based on their personalities.He does not use force to train dogs.I learnt to see my dog as a partner in sport after observing Ajay.The results are spectacular!!Few people command respect from me in terms of canine behavior.I am glad to be a beneficiary of his knowledge.