Anyone know any good books re: GSD Genetics? - Page 1

Looking for some winter reading material, and this seems a good topic. I have a few books on the subject, but was wondering if anyone else has any they would recommend on this subject matter?

I don't think it's a book - but some articles by Lloyd Brackett (GSD breeder around 85 years ago !! If you "google" him you will find some info on his articles - I think the one I have is called "Planned breeding" I think he's the guy that said Let the Sire of the dam be the grandsire of the sire on the dam's side !! I probably have that twisted, but that's why you need his articles. Oddly enough when my friend got involved with other breeds - she found out that these other people use completely different breeding philosophies - and she tried to get them to do some linebreeding as American Shepherd people would - but not too close and not too much of the same old same old superstud repeated 6 times in 4 generations. So there is something to be learned for everybody. I learned early on that while I am not in favour of much (close) linebreeding, you have to do some of it if for no other reason than to try to bring some faults to the surface, so you know what's in your genee pool - (especially if you don't already) Another friend did not do his homework and the vet told him not to see 3 of his 6 pups because their hearts were so bad, no telling how long they would live. He was shocked - others were not -- We knew that the sire he chose had a pacemaker and the grandsire and greatgrandsire both died of heart problems before they were 3 !!! Why didn't he know - he didn't ask (he didn't know what to ask, actually) and the stud dog owner was more interested in the stud fee than producing healthy animals !! So read up and do the best you can -- Somebody else said if you can make a 10% improvement over the parents, you're doing good !! It's a long slow process, and there is no amount of 1/2 brother 1/2 sister breedings that is going to speed up that process -- you will pay the price later - bigtime !! Remember, above all else -- "GENETIC DIVERSITY IS CRITICAL TO THE SURIVAL OF THE SPECIES."

Species... that would be dog, not GSD. With all the different breeds and mixes, dog is not in danger for any lack of genetic diversity. But is it really needed? Before industrialization and motorization people and their animals could/would go as far as their feet would carry them, or those of beasts of burden. In nature as well, isolated populations are rather the norm than the exception. Not every antilope goes on big meanderings like the wilderbeast. Crocs certainly won't go on a big migration but rather wait for better times where they are then and there. FL coast Manatees cannot be found anywhere else. And several of the high plateaus of the South American jungle have such destinct and isolated populations that invasion of a single one of such plateaus can wipe out a whole species. Never mind Madagaskar, Australia/NZ. Wolves in the wild will do incest breedings if no other options present themselves. Very isolated populations actually need line breeding and inbreeding to establish, enhance and strengthen certain qualities that will make them better suited to that isolated environment. Really not much different from human breeding efforts to make a domestic animal better suited to their purpose. I find the greatest wealth of information by talking to other breeders, especially the old timers, that nowadays sadly few still take seriously... They had no computer programs, no breed values, no AI, no modern gadets, etc, and they still produced outstanding dogs, often with qualities lost today. You learn about breeding by breeding. It involves risk. Sharing knowledge will speed up the learning process, but some things cannot be learned or taught. Breeding is also very intuitive. And very personal. This board is the best example how diverse opinions are. I wish I could recommend some books, maybe some other people can. I am sure those who do not have access to other breeders (yet) would appreciate it a lot. I can only stress the incredible value of networking.

A Genetic History of the German Shepherd Dog by Malcom B.Willis the book is a classic and can easily be found on Amazon.

I agree Malcom B.Willis book is a must when you can find a copy.

As far as I know, the dog genome project just got completed in Boston, on a female Boxer.Much remains to be analyzed before any books on dog genetics are published for public consumption.In my opinion, the GSD genome is relatively simple (non-diverse) because of the short history of the breed(1895).Also, GSD is a standardized breed as opposed to land-race breed which has to have a narrow range of genetic variables.Astute observers and experienced breeders with a scientific inclination can make observations regarding mendelian transmissions (autosomal recessive/dominant characteristics) such as cryptorchidism, sable coat or long coats.But we all know that genetics is far more complex than that.The dog genome project mainly aims at identifying genetic factors that are responsible for making this canine co-exist with man and how it branched off from canis lupus (wolf).My suggestion to you would be to not waste time on looking for genetics book on GSDs but rather spend your valuable time reading books on canine behavior-I found Myrna Milani's books worth reading.Best Wishes and Happy reading!!

DH - if us old timers are so interesting, that why are u funnin' me about SPECIES -- I use that particular bumber sticker to illustrate my point -- which, you obvioiusly missed - we're not talking manatee's here or wolves - who have nature and natural selection and survival of the fittest to maintain strong gene pools. we have 'Man made" GSD's with tons of health problems that outcorossing has proven to help resolve, or surpress. FYI: I bred my first litter pre-1980 and my last 13 years later. I outcrossed every time but twice. I never produced a dysplastic puppy, and much of what I bred lived to be over 12 years old. I have dogs living today that are over 11 years old that I bred, with 8 unbroken generations of certified (OFA) HIPS AND ELBOWS. When a vet asked me (around 1980) why I wanted to x-ray the bitch's elbows -- I found another vet !! He said - GSD's have had bad elbows for years -- and I said -- exactly, and I don't want to make any more of them !!! I believe I made the requisite 10% improvement in every litter and every generation -- and I'm proud to have contributed some viable service dogs to law enforcement in 2 states. Inbreed as you see fit - the buying public is getting smarter and smarter. It's not only the Red Panda that has to worry about gene pools -- GSD people (specially in the USA) should be very very worried. As my dear wife says-- you have to listen with your ears -- you can't do so with your mouth going.

Hi, I am new to the board... Almost everything I've been able to find regarding K9 genetics concerns genetic disease, physical formation (bone and coat) or color. That is all excellent information and sheds some light on the subject of genetics as a whole (as did G. Mendel's study on Peas? I think it was peas... ) With regard to the working German Shepherd and working ability (intelligence, and STABILITY) can anyone suggest a book that covers the TEMPERMENT end of genetics? Thanks in Advance Bobbie

To quote the "old timers" before I was one -- Sound temperment is made in the whelping box. You can breed a flake to the soundest stud in the World - and you will likely get flakes !! The bitch teaches the pups so much by the way she reacts to stress while in the whelping box that it's difficult to undue bad messages when they are 4-5 weeks old. They are imprinted with the wrong information - If mom is afraid of strangers viewing her pups, or too protective to let even her owner handle them - she reactes badly when people come around, and right away the puppies know - people-- equals bad = my mother got upset - so people MUST BE BAD ! Only under the oddest of circumstances where people know that some "temperatment sensitivity" was caused by some dramatic trauma - could you consider using a dog/bitch anyway - but why take that chance - - Why couldn't that dog recover from the trauma. No, I dont' know of any books on this subject - perhaps others do - but as breeders, we cannot make excuses for "sensitive" puppies/dogs - Oh, you're wearing a baseball cap -- that must have scared him - BULL**** -- don't be making excuses for lousy temperatment. Puppies can shy away or be suspicious of new experiences, but the key is that THEY RECOVER -- It's okay to jump back or bark at the automatic umbrella opening in your face - but you better darn well take two steps forward and go check it out afterwards !!!