A hint of "Garbage" genetics can make a very good dog? - Page 1

Pedigree Database


by ToneGJ on 05 June 2019 - 17:06

Hello, i'm new to the forum, so I figure i'd introduce myself first. My names Antonio, I have a 1.5month old GSD and we are in Michigan! He has an interesting range of genetics. First i'd like to point out that I did absolutely no research about GSDs prior to purchasing my dog. My boy is DDR/Czech/Some SK/West/White Bloodline.

I've just passed him through BO and he is now on his way to Advanced. I'm not a pro in the "working" department and it's hard to tell whether he'd be a good working prospect, but he's got great protection drive, and his ball drive is also present(video linked below of him)

My dogs sire is not listed on here, but he is the son of E Odin VH Cimmerian/Little Bavaria's Black Lace.

Dam was czech/west/white
So what are your opinions("garbage" referring to his white dna from what it's been labeled as)?

(Pics of him): https://www.instagram.com/p/BxdfkV7B6Hu/?igshid=ssebckf9rlcr


by ToneGJ on 05 June 2019 - 17:06

Here is a protection/prey drive video of him. Just copy/paste link to your browser if the link doesn't work here.


by Sunsilver on 05 June 2019 - 17:06

What you call 'garbage' genetics can produce a good dog. The problem is random breeding produces random results. Careful planned breeding has a much higher change of consistently producing good dogs, conforming to the breed standard, and suitable for sport or whatever else the breeder is trying to breed for.

I've had 3 rescue GSDs in the past. All of them were of unknown pedigree. All of them were good dogs - certainly not great dogs, but not problem dogs either. Backyard breeding has its place, but serious breeders breed carefully, and health test and title their dogs to make sure they have the qualities that make a good German shepherd.


by Hundmutter on 05 June 2019 - 19:06

Welcome to PDB.

Following through on what Sunsilver says above, of course you can have a 'very good dog', with a nice temperament, working suitability, high intelligence and great training aptitude, even a dog that actually looks like a GSD (or whatever breed) is supposed to look like, from a conformational p.o.v. - but as that dog matures, or gets older still, if you are unlucky and if there are genetic health problems lurking in ANY part of the dog's breeding, especially the 'garbage' bit, because that aspect has been neglected by the past breeders, you may find you get expensive problems that develop and ruin your 'very good dog'. ALL dogs are something of a crap-shoot; but the less care that is taken in producing them, and the more ignorance there is about the ancestors, the harder such problems can fall on you, when you have already convinced yourself that this is your 'dog of a lifetime'.  It can also put the kybush on any plans you may have formed to breed with that dog. (Hopefully, before you have already done that !)

Been there, done that, got the T shirt.


Plus, if your pup is only 1.5 months (6 weeks) old as it says in your opening post, he is way too young to have left his mother, let alone passed Basic Obedience.  I'll take it that was a typo for 15 months, shall I ?  That is still fairly early to be proclaiming him as the finished product / perfect GSD, though.

Antonio, if you had done some of that prior research on the breed (you sound as though you are boasting you did not need to, you have picked the right dog anyway), you would already know that all that has been said is true.


by Sunsilver on 05 June 2019 - 20:06

Hundmutter, if you look at the photos and video, this dog is definitely not a 1.5 month old pup! He's nearly full grown - just has a bit of filling out to do still. So, 15 months old, not 1.5.



by hexe on 05 June 2019 - 23:06

Inclined to think the OP meant 1 yr and 5 months of age, or year and a half.

As far as the 'garbage' genetics, the trouble isn't so much those particular genes, it's the inconsistency that comes when a breeding is 'a bit of this, a dash of that, a pinch of the other...". Aside from certainty that the offspring will be German Shepherd Dogs, there's going to be little one can rely on seeing as far as health, biddability, temperament, physical soundness and even appearance with such a breeding. Sometimes one is lucky, and gets everything good from each of the types used in the breeding and none of the bad traits; unfortunately, sometimes it also goes the other way, and the pups display all of the negatives of the assorted lines.

Basic rule: work with the dog that's in front of you, not the ones on the paperwork. That goes for dogs of any background, even the ones without any paperwork.

by jillmissal on 05 June 2019 - 23:06

This might be a somewhat relevant article. Interesting reading regardless: https://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/how-breeding-the-best-to-the-best-can-be-worse

by ToneGJ on 06 June 2019 - 02:06

I did make a typo, 1.5y/o not 1.5 months😂.
Hundmutter, no way would I "boast" about the lack of research I did(now i'm fairly educated). I'm just a young newbie that made a beginners mistake😅. No way do his "bloodlines" impact the bond I have with him either. I will take every ounce of potential I can get out of him.

My point is, I believe he can develop into a solid working dog no matter his fault bloodline that he carries, I will prove it.

And I also would like to point out, i've had MANY that were interested in him as a stud, and i've had to explain that he wasn't bred to the European Standard(he does have full AKC papers.)

by hexe on 06 June 2019 - 04:06

The dog doesn't know his pedigree. Train him as if you didn't know it either, and the two of you will do just fine.


by Sunsilver on 06 June 2019 - 04:06

As for using him as a stud, the photos show several conformation faults that I wouldn't want to pass on. He is rather narrow in the chest, and it looks like his feet toe out. He also has a ring tail - his tail curls up, instead of hanging in the nice, gentle curve that is the standard for the GSD.


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