Inappropriate Agression , but is this a fear biter? - Page 11

BE, makes one wonder if the majority thinks its expression of courage

I had to google, too...
None of the English words you learn at school....😎

Hmmmmmmm .

In general I agree that it is honorable and thew right thing to do to rehab animals horses , dogs . but this reminds me of the saying .
Lord give me the strength to change what I can change , the strength to cope with what I can't change and the wisdom to now the difference.
That being said. : Environmental / Learned behavior problems can be rehabilitated , counter-conditioned . in a dog , genetics , and problems rooted in genetics will never b e reliably rehabilitated. Genetics are fixed for the entire Life of the dog. You will never eve get a genetically based problem completely reliably set straight. A person might manage and connect with that dog , but woe to everybody else ! I don't care how brilliant one is , how gifted as a behaviorist that person is , one cannot ever change the genetics ! Again one on one with an animal , perhaps one can manage the dog .. but not all of society .
To give the public the perception many of these genetic unsound dogs can be fixed is an injustice. That dog will always to some varying degree be out of normal , unreliable , or many , outright unpredictable and dangerous . I wrote , when a dog is stressed it reverts back to what it is and has learned in foundation if it is normal. Once the overwhelming feelings , neurophysiological state is is triggered again , the genetic base will take over .. and for many dogs that spells trouble. What I didn't write , because I wanted to let that up to the people reading the post decide is [ BTW I don't take back anything I wrote in my previous posts ] : In 15 seconds time I could see genetically this dog in the very first video of this thread is unequivocally unsound ! It took me 10-15 seconds to have understood that fact. There is no 100% reliable way , this dog will be sound ,. managed , in the right person's hands yes. I don't think may people understand how unsound this aggression and dog is !! And faulty aggression like this is very very dangerous , could cost someone their life and to say managed is an understatement. I wrote the most dangerous is the animal the looks sound but internally is unsound. His neurological pathways are so messed up , this dogs brain is so abnormally functioning way off the scale of normal. I never heard of this guy Pupier before and to tell you the truth .. I am not impressed if this is a video or spoof as to some guru rehabilitation method. As a matter of fact I frown upon people breeding such dogs .

Susie and others , I agree with you that not ALL dogs with aggressive problems have to be put down, considering many factors . . Point well taken . This dog : I want people to consider :

What many people fail to understand , and I have written this ad nauseam on the PDB , there is not just aggression in this dog . More so , one has to understand in this particular dog the quality and quantity of aggression he has as well as from where this aggression originates. It is way out of normalcy .. way off the spectrum in both aspects , because there were no stimuli /triggers that prompted this aggression other than a non threatening man in his sight. No normal , sound l dog would have tried to bite this man !! This is what some of you folks fail to realize ! Really people : a man just simply standing sideways , no threat and the dog literally wants to kill him ! this was on a training field for a demo . What would this dog do to someone standing that way with him in front of a grocery store , in a scenario with a lot of commotion ? ? What are you people thinking ? What I would do is spend some time rehabilitating this Pupier guy and give him some education... When that muzzle comes off and the dog is put into a situation where his first instinct , his genetics takes over , what do you think he is going to do without a muzzle ?

This is why I never stated in this thread's first video whether I thought the dog was sound /unsound. the dog was sound or unsound from 1 video or 10 . But to think that some people believe this dog will be rehabilitated ? , I had to jump in on that thought. I have seen this in the dog world for decades. some guru comes along and all of a sudden there is some other way , a better way of doing something , simply because some guru says so . People .. THINK !! And if you are not knowledgable , without offense , please educate yourselves before you follow the Pied Piper. Oh my word ...

At least I always tend to think ...

A dog, willing to accept a stranger after 2 sessions may be difficult, but not lost.

You don't want to deal with dogs of this kind, fine, others are willing to do, with good results for the future life of the dogs.

We used to point dogs like that for re-homing toward the Prison Service.

We used to point dogs like that for re-homing toward the Prison Service.

Generally worked out very well.

However, that's not 100% guaranteed; my mentor got one rehabbed, but to be on the safe side he went to a guy in  Prison Security ...

...with very careful instructions to give the dog time to get used to him, keep him leashed in public, not to let him run free until he was sure they had bonded, and would recall consistently ...de-dah, de-dah ...

within one week, silly boll**ks had let this dog off leash in his local woods, nearly lost him, then could not get him back without being bitten.

The dogs fault ?!?

I would be the last person on earth not to take this dog seriously and think he could be rehabbed easily. We don’t know the rest of the story of this dog and what happened.

I’ve written on a few post already that I feel uneasy by the (over) breeding of some of these mililiaristic types of dogs that all to easily fall into the wrong hands. But, that aside, we don’t even know if that is the case with this dog....whether it is breeding or learned. I understand your points, Cent, about it looking genetic and it wouldn’t take a lot to convince me of it...I’m on the fence.

But about the technique that Harve is using, it may work for some dogs, maybe a lot of dogs, and imo should not be discounted as a fad. It will certainly work for dogs with incorrect training that are normally sound.

Don’t get me wrong...I’m not defending him....I don’t even know him and he certainly doesnt need me to do so! But from his website, he has over 40 years experience and booked out seminars.

He doesnt look like a flash in the pan, a fad or a fashion guru of the dog training world. He looks very old school and like he don’t give a hoot about what people think about his methods, just knows they work...is he a bit of a showman?...yes a bit, but he also has a good following and lively discussions with his people/clients/followers.

The million dollar questions are indeed: which dogs can be rehabbed and which can’t. And, can the owners/handlers deal with the life long continuation of it.
And, does this trainer know when it can’t be done and does he say so.
 

Centurion, the difference is, rehabilitating the horse so that he worked flawlessly for me, in every venue we were hired to work in....building such as the Nasau Collisium on Long Island....coming into a completely blacked house with spot lights...and a full house all the way to the ceiling...thousands of spectators....for my horse, and bull, no problem, the ghorse entered the arena at a dead run across the floor when the gate opened at precisely the time I nodded for him, spot lights shining n his eyes...working off my hand and voice signals only while I'm mounted on the Brahman, sending the paint horse over a four foot jump lite up by a spot light, and spot lights in his face....never a glitch in four performances....every where in the USA and Can the same!
But no one person ever so much as put their hands on him for the twenty five years he lived with me....I was the only person to ever put shoes on him ( I was his trainer, groomer, farrier, rider) when we entered the alleyway at the arena gate with me mounted on the bull,the paint by my side with a short four foot lead and halter....all rodeo contestant were told to get off the fence panels or the horse would savage them....some of those young guys thought they didn't need to...well as soon as a helper who was on the other side of the panel and at the top rail removed the halter after the bull and I entered the arena....anyone on the panels was charged at by my horse and were taught what 'get off' meant!
So, here's the thing....this horse was spectacular...even Pat Parelli tried to copy what I accomplished with him, but failed. No one could even touch him but me...that's great, because I didn't want them to anyway.

Same goes for the dog I got from the family of the deceased owner...nobody needed to handle him but me.
He produced very sound offspring, because his issues weren't genetic, they were manmade.

Joanro-
Got goosebumps with your story charging into the dark spotlighted Nassau Coliseum...What a sight you all must have been!