This is a placeholder text
Group text
by RockyGSD on 26 March 2014 - 02:03
Hello all,
Thank you in advance for replies.
BACKGROUND:
Rocky is a 4 year old german shepherd that we "rescued" at the age of 9/10 weeks from a backyard breeder, where he had been living in a filthy backyard with no vet care. We started him in training immediately and he was a great puppy until 7/8 months. At this age, despite socialization, he began "fearful/aggressive" behavior. He barked and growled at strangers (with no particular common physical character trait) and would try to go after people only once they had walked by and had their backs turned.
In response to this, we went crazy with socilialization efforts and now we have an amazing, perfectly manageable dog that ignores other people except when they are in the house (at which time we crate him or leave him on leash). He is great with all of our family members that he sees 1-2x a month in the house but just not strangers.
Rocky has never beeen a dominant dog and never was very vocal. He did not resource guard or have any negative habits other than not liking strangers in the house.
When we fostered a border collie, she would resource guard bones and growl when he came near and then snap at him. One time I reached for his bone at age 2 and he growled at me and after that we trained the "trading game" and he never has growled since.
NOW TO THE ISSUE:
We live on the second floor of an apartment with carpeted stairs in our house, which Rocky loves to run up and down (and we must stop him from doing so and bugging the neighbors. He has not had his hips x rayed but walks normal and has no pain. When it is time to go outside, for 4 years we have said "Do you want to go outside?" and then he runs around in circles and is so happy and runs to the top of the stairs to get his collar on.
In January, my fiance told him "Do you want to go outside" and to our surprise, he began growling and ran to his bed under the desk. I did not know what to do so we ignored him and did not take him outside. My trainer said that Rocky has difficulty snapping out of whatever mindset he is in and that he needed to be distracted and snapped out of this fearful/growling mindset.
So the next time it happened, I told him "go to your bed" and he went immedietely, growling the whole way. The second I saidd "OK" (his release command), he ran up to me tail wagging and happy and I snapped his collar on and we went outside and he was happy go lucky as always.
Fast forward to March -- 40% of the time when we say "Do you want to go outside" he growls and runs to his bed or hides. I stopped saying it, thinking it was a trigger. That worked for a little bit. Now, when I grab his collar and he hears it jingle, he starts growling and goes to his bed.
My fiance just calledme and told me that Rocky growled AND showed his teeth when he picked up the collar today.
WHAT IS GOING ON???!!
Rocky has had NO bad experiences with the collar (normal collar) and the SECOND we snap his collar on, he wags his tail and stops growling and runs outside.
However, this growling behavior has moved past the collar and now if we startle him, he starts growling at us :( For example, when we get home, we always open the door and say "HEY BUDDY" and he runs and jumps off the bed and comes to us. Now, if I am petting him and my fiance walks up, he starts growling at my fiance. (Only when we first get home) But then my fiance pets him and he keep growling the entire time but in a weird way and no hackles up or teeth shown or slow tail wagging. Then he just "snaps out of it" and goes back to normal.
I am beginning to worry about our beloved Rocky and my trainer is perplexed.
Please respond to this post if you were able to read through the entire thing and feel free to ask me any questions or tell me that we are the cause of the problem! I can take any criticism----I just want my dog back to normal!
ALSO: I went to Spain for four months September- December. This behavior had never occurred before I left. Also -- my fiance is unable to "snap Rocky out of his fear mindset" like I do, by giving him a place command and then a release word. Instead, my fiance just doesn't take him out if he growls and hides because he is hurt and also a bit frightened (thought he won't admit it)
Please help :(
Thank you in advance for replies.
BACKGROUND:
Rocky is a 4 year old german shepherd that we "rescued" at the age of 9/10 weeks from a backyard breeder, where he had been living in a filthy backyard with no vet care. We started him in training immediately and he was a great puppy until 7/8 months. At this age, despite socialization, he began "fearful/aggressive" behavior. He barked and growled at strangers (with no particular common physical character trait) and would try to go after people only once they had walked by and had their backs turned.
In response to this, we went crazy with socilialization efforts and now we have an amazing, perfectly manageable dog that ignores other people except when they are in the house (at which time we crate him or leave him on leash). He is great with all of our family members that he sees 1-2x a month in the house but just not strangers.
Rocky has never beeen a dominant dog and never was very vocal. He did not resource guard or have any negative habits other than not liking strangers in the house.
When we fostered a border collie, she would resource guard bones and growl when he came near and then snap at him. One time I reached for his bone at age 2 and he growled at me and after that we trained the "trading game" and he never has growled since.
NOW TO THE ISSUE:
We live on the second floor of an apartment with carpeted stairs in our house, which Rocky loves to run up and down (and we must stop him from doing so and bugging the neighbors. He has not had his hips x rayed but walks normal and has no pain. When it is time to go outside, for 4 years we have said "Do you want to go outside?" and then he runs around in circles and is so happy and runs to the top of the stairs to get his collar on.
In January, my fiance told him "Do you want to go outside" and to our surprise, he began growling and ran to his bed under the desk. I did not know what to do so we ignored him and did not take him outside. My trainer said that Rocky has difficulty snapping out of whatever mindset he is in and that he needed to be distracted and snapped out of this fearful/growling mindset.
So the next time it happened, I told him "go to your bed" and he went immedietely, growling the whole way. The second I saidd "OK" (his release command), he ran up to me tail wagging and happy and I snapped his collar on and we went outside and he was happy go lucky as always.
Fast forward to March -- 40% of the time when we say "Do you want to go outside" he growls and runs to his bed or hides. I stopped saying it, thinking it was a trigger. That worked for a little bit. Now, when I grab his collar and he hears it jingle, he starts growling and goes to his bed.
My fiance just calledme and told me that Rocky growled AND showed his teeth when he picked up the collar today.
WHAT IS GOING ON???!!
Rocky has had NO bad experiences with the collar (normal collar) and the SECOND we snap his collar on, he wags his tail and stops growling and runs outside.
However, this growling behavior has moved past the collar and now if we startle him, he starts growling at us :( For example, when we get home, we always open the door and say "HEY BUDDY" and he runs and jumps off the bed and comes to us. Now, if I am petting him and my fiance walks up, he starts growling at my fiance. (Only when we first get home) But then my fiance pets him and he keep growling the entire time but in a weird way and no hackles up or teeth shown or slow tail wagging. Then he just "snaps out of it" and goes back to normal.
I am beginning to worry about our beloved Rocky and my trainer is perplexed.
Please respond to this post if you were able to read through the entire thing and feel free to ask me any questions or tell me that we are the cause of the problem! I can take any criticism----I just want my dog back to normal!
ALSO: I went to Spain for four months September- December. This behavior had never occurred before I left. Also -- my fiance is unable to "snap Rocky out of his fear mindset" like I do, by giving him a place command and then a release word. Instead, my fiance just doesn't take him out if he growls and hides because he is hurt and also a bit frightened (thought he won't admit it)
Please help :(
by RockyGSD on 26 March 2014 - 02:03
Additional information:
He has recently gained 3-4 pounds in the last month and a half after being the same weight for 2 years and had an increasing appetite despite same amount, possibly less, exercise.
He sleeps on the bed at our feet but gets down the moment we tell him or sleeps in his bed if we tell him. We don't let him walk through the door first and he does tricks to get his first two bites of food. (I try to practice NILIF) I will admit that when he brings me a toy, I always throw it for him.
On weekdays he does not get taken for walks because my fiance goes to EMS school all day and is a police officer all night. I commute to our apartment Thursday-Sundays and these are the days he gets a 2 mile run in the morning and dog park visits on the "off peak" hours to run and explore.
I am not sure anything else to include so please ask.
He has recently gained 3-4 pounds in the last month and a half after being the same weight for 2 years and had an increasing appetite despite same amount, possibly less, exercise.
He sleeps on the bed at our feet but gets down the moment we tell him or sleeps in his bed if we tell him. We don't let him walk through the door first and he does tricks to get his first two bites of food. (I try to practice NILIF) I will admit that when he brings me a toy, I always throw it for him.
On weekdays he does not get taken for walks because my fiance goes to EMS school all day and is a police officer all night. I commute to our apartment Thursday-Sundays and these are the days he gets a 2 mile run in the morning and dog park visits on the "off peak" hours to run and explore.
I am not sure anything else to include so please ask.
by Ruger1 on 26 March 2014 - 02:03
This is certainly concerning. Are you saying that your male was fine before you left for Spain?. If so, without offending you, is there anyway chance your boyfriend,'and your male had a confrontation and he isn't telling you. Some of the behaviors you describe my male does, except he does not hide or otherwise act fearful. It appears that he associates the going out with something tramatic/ stressful/ fearful I am sorry to hear this about your GSD, I hope those more knowledgable chime in with their opinions. Please seek help from a trainer familiar with the breed. Where are you located? Also, a health checkup is a must considering....
by RockyGSD on 26 March 2014 - 03:03
We have a vet appointment scheduled for Monday. I read about hypothroidism? Or something similiar? It can apparently cause drastic changes.
Rocky lived with my fiance and I for 6 months-
then when my fiance moved for work, Rocky lived with me for 2 1/2 years and only saw him 4-5 days a month.
He then lived with my fiance for the four months that I was in Spain. I returned home December 6. The behavior did not surface until around January 16-18 (I don't remember the exact date). I took him out at least 50-60 times since returning home and when the growling began.
But yes---I did at first suspect something happened with my fiance. (Not that he would ever purposely hurt an animal....but he is not as "into" dogs as I am and thinks half the stuff that i tell him about behavior and aggression that I read on here is made-up) I asked him if he accidentely snapped the collar on his ear or slammed the door on his tail etc etc....but he said no and I trust him.
He is very, very upset about the behavior as well.
I compeltely made this up---but maybe Rocky is confused about who is in charge, after going to living with me to living with my fiance and now living with both of us? Could disrupting the "ranking" and having order have caused it? I am scrambling, obviously.
Rocky lived with my fiance and I for 6 months-
then when my fiance moved for work, Rocky lived with me for 2 1/2 years and only saw him 4-5 days a month.
He then lived with my fiance for the four months that I was in Spain. I returned home December 6. The behavior did not surface until around January 16-18 (I don't remember the exact date). I took him out at least 50-60 times since returning home and when the growling began.
But yes---I did at first suspect something happened with my fiance. (Not that he would ever purposely hurt an animal....but he is not as "into" dogs as I am and thinks half the stuff that i tell him about behavior and aggression that I read on here is made-up) I asked him if he accidentely snapped the collar on his ear or slammed the door on his tail etc etc....but he said no and I trust him.
He is very, very upset about the behavior as well.
I compeltely made this up---but maybe Rocky is confused about who is in charge, after going to living with me to living with my fiance and now living with both of us? Could disrupting the "ranking" and having order have caused it? I am scrambling, obviously.
by beetree on 26 March 2014 - 03:03
Rocky should not be petted at all when growling, for any reason. This is disturbing, yes. He needs immediate discipline and obedience to snap him out of his growling mindset. I would get a new collar that does not jingle. I would stop asking him about going out and simply put on the new noiseless collar, give a command and go. Any new growling after that needs a clear consequence. I think you could benefit with a second opinion trainer, one who specializes with aggression. Your boyfriend being fearful is a problem. He needs the most instruction, most likely. You both will need to be consistent in responses, in any case. Good luck, you are right to be proactive about this matter.
by Blitzen on 26 March 2014 - 03:03
I would not rule out hypothyroidism. I can't stress enough the importance of having Rocky's test done and interpreted by Dr. Dodds. Read this carfeully before your vet appointment. Good luck.
http://dogaware.com/health/hypothyroid.html
http://dogaware.com/health/hypothyroid.html
by EduCanine on 26 March 2014 - 03:03
I totally agree with getting a medical evaluation done. In the mean time STOP asking him if he wants to go outside, don't continue to practice this cycle of behavior for both of you. Instead leave a leash on him at all times, randomly pick up the leash during the day, give a treat, drop leash. Then when it's time to go outside, have treat, pick up leash as you've practiced and without talking to him take him out. This should help manage the situation better until you get some answers. I feel bad for you and the dog!!
ETA: I don't think for a second this has anything to do with rank.
ETA: I don't think for a second this has anything to do with rank.
by Hundmutter on 26 March 2014 - 07:03
Rocky, please take on board everything that the above 3 posters
(Bee, Blitzen & EduCanine) have written to you.
It is all good advice; especially about getting his bloods done (although
I tend to lean towards this turning out to be behavioural rather than his thyroid,
but you should certainly check), breaking the cycle with a new type of
collar, keeping a collar and 'house line' on him indoors, changing the
way you introduce commands.
All the way through reading your OP I was worrying about the same
things raised by others: is this change something medical, or has he just
reached 'adolescense' a bit later than usual (not uncommon in more reserved
natured GSDs) and is now testing his 'boundaries' ? Had your BF
done anything to him, even accidently, or was his worrying about it
making it worse (and I remembered you had said similar stuff in previous
topics, about him not being as 'doggy-oriented' as you and sometimes
reluctant to accept the point in training/behaviour advice.) Had some event
occurred while he was outside that had bothered him ? I particularly
noticed your saying you both put the thing about taking him outside in
querying terms ... whenever I come across anybody's dog that is taking
the piss out of them, I usually find them asking it if it "wants" to do something
(go for a walk, Fetch a ball, etc) ... so I always worry about this. It's
particularly relevant with Shepherds, and this grumbling could be, in a way, about
'rank' .
He sounds like a nice, normal dog, pre- this behaviour; don't let it turn
him into a less acceptable one. Very best of luck, in getting him vet-checked,
and finding him a Trainer's opinion, and in hopefully getting him over this problem.
PS Waves @ Blitzen, great to see you posting again.
(Bee, Blitzen & EduCanine) have written to you.
It is all good advice; especially about getting his bloods done (although
I tend to lean towards this turning out to be behavioural rather than his thyroid,
but you should certainly check), breaking the cycle with a new type of
collar, keeping a collar and 'house line' on him indoors, changing the
way you introduce commands.
All the way through reading your OP I was worrying about the same
things raised by others: is this change something medical, or has he just
reached 'adolescense' a bit later than usual (not uncommon in more reserved
natured GSDs) and is now testing his 'boundaries' ? Had your BF
done anything to him, even accidently, or was his worrying about it
making it worse (and I remembered you had said similar stuff in previous
topics, about him not being as 'doggy-oriented' as you and sometimes
reluctant to accept the point in training/behaviour advice.) Had some event
occurred while he was outside that had bothered him ? I particularly
noticed your saying you both put the thing about taking him outside in
querying terms ... whenever I come across anybody's dog that is taking
the piss out of them, I usually find them asking it if it "wants" to do something
(go for a walk, Fetch a ball, etc) ... so I always worry about this. It's
particularly relevant with Shepherds, and this grumbling could be, in a way, about
'rank' .
He sounds like a nice, normal dog, pre- this behaviour; don't let it turn
him into a less acceptable one. Very best of luck, in getting him vet-checked,
and finding him a Trainer's opinion, and in hopefully getting him over this problem.
PS Waves @ Blitzen, great to see you posting again.
by susie on 26 March 2014 - 09:03
As others suggested and you already scheduled, get a medical evolution done.
If everything comes up okay - ( health issues are a possibility, but seldom ):
Who is the pack leader? You, the dog, your fiance?
How does he behave, if your fiance is not in the appartment? Does he still growl, or is he fine with you?
If everything comes up okay - ( health issues are a possibility, but seldom ):
Who is the pack leader? You, the dog, your fiance?
How does he behave, if your fiance is not in the appartment? Does he still growl, or is he fine with you?
by alienor on 26 March 2014 - 12:03
Susie good question. Does he ever growl at you when the BF is not around?
On weekdays he does not get taken for walks because my fiance goes to EMS school all day and is a police officer all night. I commute to our apartment Thursday-Sundays and these are the days he gets a 2 mile run in the morning and dog park visits on the "off peak" hours to run and explore.
It sounds like the BF is in charge of the dog Mon-Thurs and the dog gets no outdoor exercise during this time?
I may have misinterpreted this. But if so, that seems like a long while for a GSD to languish in an apartment.
The BF has two, what I would call, stressful jobs. Is something happening at these jobs that the dog is picking up on? Unusual smells...fear? Adrenaline residuals?
Couple with that the possibility that when your BF comes home late at night he may be worrying about how the dog will react when he opens the door. The dog will know this.
On weekdays he does not get taken for walks because my fiance goes to EMS school all day and is a police officer all night. I commute to our apartment Thursday-Sundays and these are the days he gets a 2 mile run in the morning and dog park visits on the "off peak" hours to run and explore.
It sounds like the BF is in charge of the dog Mon-Thurs and the dog gets no outdoor exercise during this time?
I may have misinterpreted this. But if so, that seems like a long while for a GSD to languish in an apartment.
The BF has two, what I would call, stressful jobs. Is something happening at these jobs that the dog is picking up on? Unusual smells...fear? Adrenaline residuals?
Couple with that the possibility that when your BF comes home late at night he may be worrying about how the dog will react when he opens the door. The dog will know this.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top