How to get young dog closer in the blind - Page 1

Hi everyone:

I have a young dog who likes to move forward and backward and then pounce forward in the blind.  Looking for suggestions on how to work on getting her closer in the blind and to stay there.  Anyone else experience this.  Seems like she likes to move back so she can launch forward.

Cheryl

How long were you doing the H&B in the open field before going into the blind? I'm guessing the dog doesn't do this outside the blind, so why do you think the dog wants "to launch" in the blind? Without video, I'd guess it was something else. Hard to say too when you can't see how the helper is working the dog. Did you just start the H&B in the blind? Does the dog push the helper in the open field?

Hi Don:

She gets closer in the open field, but occassional backs up and springs forward there too.  She is 14 months.  We started working on the blind about 2 weeks ago.  She is better in open field. I can get a video tomorrow night during training so you can see.  She likes to back up and spring forward, if that makes sense.  I am new to this (even though I have been training for a few years) so maybe not describing it too well. 

Cheryl

there are different components to this .. why does the dog do it ?? because at one time it worked[s] !! the dog is working the helper !! it is thinking and has become inventive .. the dog has learned to work this way ..an operant conditioned behavior .. what i preach a lotabout  : the dog wanting to perform .. yes this dog wants to perform and knows what to do to get what it wants... smart dog !! also another component .. the dog was not taught self control !! the dog has not learned that it gets what it wants not just as a reward but also by controlling it's instincts / motivation [ biting my tongue using this word .. " drive"\ ]..  perhaps the dog was allowed to become frantic by the helper / by the owner or both !! !!this dog is  extraoridnarily motivated but the motivation is not channeled --the  enrgy , motivation , feeling , thought  should be channelled into  the bark /hold- that behavior-     and not into obtaining  a bite .. that is what was learned .. channel you energy into getting the bite ..  and to do  what it takes to get the bite !! and it does !! . the dog is   not self controlled because it is not thinking of controlling itself but is thinking of controlling the helper .. not holding the helper but controlling it / manipultating it .. it has no self control to wait for the 'green light ' for the bite .. it is creating the opportunity to bite !!  there are exceptions .. too .. some dogs will perform this behavior .. like a person throwing a jab .. it wants to hit you .. so it gives a little jab .. hoping to get the chance to throw a right croos .. the dog wants to bite . but not quite up to par to take charge and get the total bite it wants .. so you see a little  jabb , back off , a little jab, back off .. again this is still a form where the dog works the helper ... . this is why i preach self control , calm , cool , collected thinikng in our GSDs .. to many times i see the bark and hold not taught correctly .. one of the threads has a nice video about teaching the dog  to be straight in the blind .. but was more imortant are ALL the other lessons being taught .. check out one of the present threads here.. IMO .. i would teach this dog self control .. off the field .. then bring that concept to the protection aspect on a field .. then afterwards  when learned ,  to the blind .. i would teach the dog .. all the repitiore of behaviors does not bring the dog to it's goal , 'to bite ' .. the prey biting will extinguish if there is no success.. success comes only for correct execution and behavior .. .. correct BITE  .. act like that[ incorrect behavior]  you and the helper part ways .. .. now if i think the dog performs in the way of attack/ retreat .. jab jab in order to look for the bite .. then i eliminate that opportunity .. the dog does not get opportunity to advance / nor reatreat .. it gets opportunity only for correct behavior, bark / hold/patience  .. the dog  physically cannot go forwards / nor go back .. the dog must learn to hold / maintain it's position, close , straight , not into , nor away  -- if i have to glue his butt .. he will maintain position , he will  learn confidencein the midst of the helper and confidence to act correctly  .. and learn to overcome with one earned shot . Again hard to say [ dogs do many things for many reasons ..] Don is correct .. without video  hard to say 100%... .. but this is my impression from a quick verse

Well, Alpha, I get a different picture from the description. I'm not saying you're wrong. It just sounds like a dog that isn't confident to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Without a video, I didn't want to say that. From your (AP's) description of that "jabbs" isn't what I get out of her description. When I read her's it sounds like the dog is going back and forth, unsure and not fully confident confronting the helper. Like I said, I could be in left field on that without seeing the dog. You and I interpreted the same words a different way.

yes .. Don .. that is what i alluded to by the description of ' jabs' .. kinda like a sucker punch / not a direct blow to defeat . .. but more a test / jab  .. this i can agree with you, as a possiblity [ lack of confidence] ... again the reason i alluded to , in my post,  the word , confidence.. yet consider this .. the dog is brazen enough to " try' .. there is something in the dog's mind , even if it lacks confidence to " give a whirl" , sort to speak of .. and in a sense that is a type of' working the helper" i agree .. your assessment is not wrong as a possibility ... your're correct .. difficult to read  both helper [ [history ] / dog ... and the handler ..[ e.g if the handler ,[ not meaning this dog/handler] is not confident.. then so be it the dog's performance at times ..

For whatever reason he is doing this has be stoped ,I use fence work to make the dog feel  secure and selfconfident and avoid any lunching and once he gets it bring him back to the blind . I like working dogs behind fence because it works on all typesof dogs it teaches them confident and selfcontrol .

Reno, how is the dog doing? Hope I didn't put you off by what I said. I hope you understood that what I said was just what it sounded like to me, and even if that was the case, your dog is very young and it is understandable. I haven't seen a video and you haven't come back. Hope I didn't scare you away! I'm a fan of Reno, too!

I think video would be great to see what state ofmind the dog has while doing B&H. What I work hard on with all of my dogs is bark and hold: intense, tight and not sleeve oriented. (as matter of fact my last male pushed the sleeve on the site while doung thios exercise.. it was funny we had to teach him to respect the sleeve)

 

Maybe we can help, maybe we cant... but fornow I would have to read the dog.

 

Pack

Sorry, I am not frightened away, yet.  Was hoping to get a video but Wed night it stormed so bad while we were on the field, I was unable to get a video and Saturdays training, we did not work on the blind but on grips and barking.  I wanted to send a video that would show what I was talking about on her position and her movement forward and back.  I also had Brenna at a Flinks seminar last Sunday, but didn't work in the blind, so no video there either.  I am hoping to get a video tomorrow night, but if not will get one from Saturday's training.  My first dog I titled was a show line and I am adjusting to working a very different type of dog. 

Hoping to share a video by this weekend.  I could share some other training videos of Brenna, but unfortunately none that I have right now show the issue with the blind.

Cheryl