Color and Pigment - Page 1

I have noticed that a some show dogs, a few with top placings (in various countries/registries), have a faded saddle (or with a tan or reddish tint, not true black), and others have tan tipping down their spine, some almost have a completely tan stripe(mostly in females) My question is, are these conditions considered poor color or pigment and how much is it weighed in the confimation ring.

I was told that in the females it is hormonal, so it is very exceptable....with the males, that is something that I have noticed, and look for males with dark color to breed with...but I guess they don't think it is a to big of a deal as you have seen top rated males with that on them. I think that it is poor color pigmentation and is something that needs to be addressed... Heather

The SV is very concerned about fading pigment and markings. A male is always critized for the saddle not being solid black or if his mask is lacking. I do not have problems with that, due to the fact that I breed with sables. Sables also improve pigment in Black and Tans/Reds. Chris

It started with Hermann Martin and Uran. Martin had the choice of strongly pimented Uran progeny and poorly pigmeted Uran progeny and he chose poorly pigmented. Saddle color obviously didn't have any special importance to him, i.e. Yambo v Wildsteiger Land going Auslese several times. Today one reads judges critiques that say an animal has "large areas of black in his saddle" that's how bad the condition has become.

Why black saddle in female showline not common?

I have noticed during my search for a GSD pup that there are bi-color GSD if this is bred with a sable female what will the offsoring produce? John

jck72 depending on what is also in the lines you would probably get some bi-colors, sables, maybe some all blacks. Those color combinations are generally more associated with working lines. I've been told only sables can produce sables.

Yes, only true sables will produce sables, and if both sides carry black-ressive, you can get blacks and/or dark bi-colors (colored like a Doberman) - one of my favorite colors. It DOES bother me that there are more dogs with fading pigment - I don't make any hormone connection - I think it's a convenient "story". I've had bitches with SOME salt and pepper down their topline - mostly up around the withers, and it got to a certain point and stayed there. When it keeps FADING -- it's fading pigment and not a good thing. I saw a dog recently that was "normal" black/tan as a pup - and now you could easily confuse HIM with a reddish sable if you didn't know better (the fact that he has no sable parent) and his toenails are WHITE !! Nose leather, back of the ears, tip of the tail, and toenails -- these parts must be DARK if you have any hope of carrying good pigment -- so a dog with light COLOR on the outside, but good Pigment points - should produce at least nothing lighter than herself when bred to a dog that does not take away any color. Breed to a sable to IMPROVE color/pigment in your light dogs -- Try to find a nice one like -- Eichenluft's Eagle (sorry if I spelled that wrong)

The saddle in male dogs should be solid black and in recent shows in our country quite a few dogs have been critisized for having a "broken saddle". Breeders have also been directed to watch out for this fault in their breeding programmes. While bitches are still being allowed some latitude, the idea is that in future years they, too, should have a solid black saddle.

I have heard that there is quite a bit of dyeing and 'enhancing' that goes on to hide theses sorts of things - just reading grooming supplies scares me - one can practically spray paint a dog...