Puppy stands on his hocks - Page 1

Hi,

We recently purchased a showline puppy from what I could tell is a reputable breeder. He is very lively and can be a real handful at times, but we love him just the way he is. He is a Zamp Vom Thermodos grandson and is also line bred to Nando vom Gollerweiher and Enzo von Buchhorn amoungst other highly regarded GSDs.

This weekend I went to the vet to have him weighted and pick up some worming tablets. He is 17 weeks old and weighed in at just under 20kg - I think this is about right for his age. Anyway, the nurse turned around to me and said that the way he stands could mean that he has issues with his back legs.

Basically, when he stands, the length of his hocks are very close to the ground. She said that at his age they should be more vertical. I have noticed that they are loose, but put that down to the fact that he is young and his muscles are still developing. The vet came out and had a look and said that I should have him x-rayed. I am not sure what they could ascertain in a puupy so young. There are no other issues when he walks; he has good co-ordination and a straight, sloping back.

I have called the breeder before about the loose hocks and she assured me it was because of his age and lack of muscular development. She has asked me not to exercise him too much and I am adhering to this. I called her again after the visit to the vet and she told me that it was quite normal for a showline puppy to stand in this way at his age.

I would like to know if this really is the case with showline GSDs?

I suppose I am asking for an unbiased opionion because I sometimes find vets can scare you just to make more money; and the breeder can be subjective in her opinion. One consolation I do have with regards the breeder is that she kept back two of his litter mates - a boy and a girl. She will be using them in her future breeding programme.

Any comments to my question will be very much appreciated.

Thanks

A

Are you able to post a picture?  would give us a better idea.  Some lines are down in the hocks and pasterns more than others at that age. 

Sangar,
  Hopefully you and the breeder have pretty good lines of communications as to what you wanted, as the buyer and what the breeder sold you......It is very important that you make contact  with the breeder as to what your concerns are...Have you done that yet?  As a breeder, I would want anyone I sold a puppy to, to contact me first.....Being the breeder, They should know the lines they are breeding and know what to expect from the puppies....Therefore the breeder should be able to explain to you the changes, and the stages of growth your puppy is going through...The breeder would be the one best able to give you the answers you are seeking.....

When I did have showlines, I had purchased an awesome sable puppy...She was VERY loose in rear and walked very hocky....She was even very down on her hocks...This all started at about 4-5 months......Needless to say my vet wanted to xray. The breeder advised  me to give her time....I just knew she had HD....Everyone that saw her "just knew she had HD".......At two years old she was walking normal and no where near down on her hocks.....I got her hips and elbows xrayed and submitted to OFA...Results....Hips OFA GOOD.....and positive for ED....I never once thought it would turn out that way...Never showed any signs of ED...

Just remember, not everything is what it seems....JMO

 Vets know squat about what a GSD stands like at various times. While I don't like showline conformation, your pup may very well be "normal" for what he is. I would listen to the breeder way before the vet, and I wouldn't subject a pup to xrays at this age. I do disagree about not exercising; how do you strengthen ligaments and muscles w/out exercise???

I also have a Zamp grandson and he like yours was down on his hocks he is a show puppy and I
like you thought his hips where bad however I did exercise him up and down hills and stairs
he is now 10 month's old the legs are stronger and he seems to be growing out of this
he is angulated and some show line dogs are a little down in the rear.
give him some time
stay in touch with your breeder,  work with your puppy you do have good lines.

You see this more frequently with American showline dogs. Most of them walk on their hocks. The breeders actually select for this. I don't fully understand it, but it supposedly gives the dog a flashier gait with more extention. It goes hand in hand with increased angulation. Because showline breeders in Germany are selecting for more extreme angulation, it is showing up more frequently in the German showline dogs too. It will get better as the dog matures, and I, too, disagree about the vet saying to limit exercise. I would treat this dog like any other pup as far as exercise goes. Just avoid exercising for too long a period, jumping or quick turns that might damage growing joints.

Good luck with him!

Firstly I would like everyone so far for the response. I have not taken any pictures in the last couple of weeks; I'll take some one evening this week and post them on here.

I am in touch with the breeder, and she has told me not to worry too much as he will grow out of it as he gets older - by about 9 months. The breeder has over 25 year experience with the breed and has been helpful, but as I said, her opinion may be subjective. Hence, I asked in this forum. She has said that I am welcome to bring him back to her kennels so that she can have a look at him. I may do that this weekend, but it's about an hour and half away. Mind you, as she has his brother and sister, it may be a good opportunity for me to see how they are coming along.

We're going away for a couple of weeks in February and I am going to leave him with the breeder over that period. She'll be able to see him on a daily basis over that period and will hopefully be able to give me a better prognosis.

With regards to exercise, I take him out in the evenings for about 15 to 20 mins. We don't go very far as he spends most of his time sniffing around. In the mornings I let him out in the garden where runs around on the decking and my wife also lets him out in the day. We try to keep him penned at other times as we're trying house train him. Oh yes, I did purchase a jute bite rag for him because he used to bite a lot; my 10 year old son normally plays with him using the bite rag in the evenings.

I think I'll start letting him onto the lawn in the morning so he can have a run around at his leisure.

I was aware of the American showlines being over angulated. My last GSD was of old english working lines - much bigger with a strong head. I never had any issues with his hips, or any other health issues right up until the end. He lived till a week past his 11 birthday and then suddenly fell ill. We chose to have him put to sleep rather live a lesser quality of life on medication.

This time I wanted to go for a German showline GSD and thought they were not bred to be so angulated. Also, looking at his pedigree on here, the dogs are definitely of the German type. They are all hip scored and passed for breeding.

Thanks!

A

Not only is swimming good for the joints and ligaments, its good for puppies with pano...We swim our boy with pano at least twice a week.... You can see it does help...But just when it gone in one leg, it appears in the other.....Poor baby......

Hello Sangar. Your dog sounds like he has a lot of angle in the rear. This is not an indication of any health issue and has no bearing on whether hips or good or bad. As SS said, Am. s/l have been walking on their hocks for many generations.

The dog should tighten up some with age, but will proably always be considered to have an extreme rear.

hth,
Rik