This is a placeholder text
Group text
by SitasMom on 08 April 2011 - 17:04
"I try to let him run around freely on the lawn when I get a chance, but this does not happen everyday.'
"He runs around on the lawn mostly over the weekends."
IMO Puppies NEED to have much more time to run and play and develope their muscles and coordination....
I let my 3 - 4 month (conformation) puppies out to play 30 to 45 minutes 3 times a day.... they are strong and do not have such issues.... we play tug, and chase the ball and follow mommy. Sometimes I hide their food in places so they have to go and find it. They explore different environments, textures and situations. Then they go back into their pen and nap until the next outing.
Yours will be fine but he could use more freedom to enable his muscles do develope better, then he's be off his hocks much more........
by Abby Normal on 10 April 2011 - 18:04
Sitasmom
I missed that statement!
Sangar, what is the puppy doing during the week? Is he crated often? If you have a garden what prevents you allowing him this exercise every day? What amount and type of exercise is he getting during an average week?
My pups from 11 weeks old have free run and play several times a day, on and off the property. Prior to 11 weeks they have free play in the grounds for short supervised periods several times a day. It does need to be regular, not just weekends, not only for physical development, but mental development too.
This may be a significant part of his problem, and crucial for his continued improvement. People on here can give you good advice on this.
I missed that statement!
Sangar, what is the puppy doing during the week? Is he crated often? If you have a garden what prevents you allowing him this exercise every day? What amount and type of exercise is he getting during an average week?
My pups from 11 weeks old have free run and play several times a day, on and off the property. Prior to 11 weeks they have free play in the grounds for short supervised periods several times a day. It does need to be regular, not just weekends, not only for physical development, but mental development too.
This may be a significant part of his problem, and crucial for his continued improvement. People on here can give you good advice on this.
by pod on 11 April 2011 - 00:04
I know a lot has already been said on this thread about showline breeding for extreme angulation, but just to add my thoughts.
It may not be the intention of breeders to produce such extreme conformation, such as evident in this pup, that leads to locomotion problems, but it should not be a surprise when extremes such as this occur. It is the nature of inheritance of quantitative traits and the cumulative effect of multiple genes that are being vigorously selected for, that combine to produce an occasional phenotype outside of the normal range.
I agree with other posters in that an improvement will be seen as the pup grows and soft tissue strengthens, but it must also be remembered that when a dog ages, the soft tissue weakens again and this dog may experience problems associated with extreme angulation later in life.
It may not be the intention of breeders to produce such extreme conformation, such as evident in this pup, that leads to locomotion problems, but it should not be a surprise when extremes such as this occur. It is the nature of inheritance of quantitative traits and the cumulative effect of multiple genes that are being vigorously selected for, that combine to produce an occasional phenotype outside of the normal range.
I agree with other posters in that an improvement will be seen as the pup grows and soft tissue strengthens, but it must also be remembered that when a dog ages, the soft tissue weakens again and this dog may experience problems associated with extreme angulation later in life.
by SitasMom on 11 April 2011 - 02:04
Any puppy that is left in a crate and let to run on slippery floors during the week and then let to run outside only on weekeds is going to be weak - i just hope its not too late for the puppy to avoid hip dysplacia....
puppies must have proper exercise in order for their muscles and bones to form correctly.
puppies must have proper exercise in order for their muscles and bones to form correctly.
by Rik on 12 April 2011 - 05:04
sangar, no amount of play time on solid surface is going to harm your puppy. The pup will stop when it is tired.
You are doing your dogs a disservice if you have been led to believe restricting activity benefits them.
To keep repeating myself, extreme angles and/or loose hocks has absolutely no bearing or influence on joint construction, H/D, quality of life or issues later in life.
Rik
You are doing your dogs a disservice if you have been led to believe restricting activity benefits them.
To keep repeating myself, extreme angles and/or loose hocks has absolutely no bearing or influence on joint construction, H/D, quality of life or issues later in life.
Rik
by Abby Normal on 12 April 2011 - 10:04
Rik, I agree that extreme angulation will not cause HD, although IMO extreme angulation is incorrect and does not lend itself to strong and balanced locomotion.
I disagree that unlimited running around on slippery floors could not cause any harm. If a puppy has the predisposition to HD (which we don't know), a number of factors including diet and environment can contribute to it's development/severity. I think that is what Sitasmom means by her reference to HD, not that the extreme angulation is going to cause it. Personally I hate slippery (esp laminate) floors for any dog. I had a dog damage ligaments in a training hall on a wood floor when she slipped on a turn.
Beneficial exercise should be on a number of different surfaces, including hard (but non slippery) surfaces, grass, sand etc. If this pup were mine I was also definitely be swimming him, since although he has much improved he is not yet right.
I disagree that unlimited running around on slippery floors could not cause any harm. If a puppy has the predisposition to HD (which we don't know), a number of factors including diet and environment can contribute to it's development/severity. I think that is what Sitasmom means by her reference to HD, not that the extreme angulation is going to cause it. Personally I hate slippery (esp laminate) floors for any dog. I had a dog damage ligaments in a training hall on a wood floor when she slipped on a turn.
Beneficial exercise should be on a number of different surfaces, including hard (but non slippery) surfaces, grass, sand etc. If this pup were mine I was also definitely be swimming him, since although he has much improved he is not yet right.
by trixx on 12 April 2011 - 13:04
if you are concerned i would get an xray done at 1 year, that is the best time to take alook.
by Sangar on 12 April 2011 - 20:04
Wow - quite a response today over the past 4 days.
Sitasmom - I was not letting him run around too much on the advice of his breeder. However, subsequent to that, I have been talking to another breeder (this one introduced me to the one whom I bought my pup from) and this other breeder has my pup's half sister. The half sister was the same up until she was about 10 months old. This breeder has told me to road walk him much more than I have been. Also, as the weather is much better here in London, we have been leaving him out on the decking in the day. The area is quite big and he walks around freely all day. He is only crated/penned over night. It probably came out wrong, but we do not only let him out on weekends, that would be so cruel!! But yes, he was penned when he was younger and only let out in slippery floors all the time.
So, during the week he is out free. I should point out that my wife is home during the day so the back door is normally open for him to venture in and out of the house as he pleases. He prefers it outside though and has been started to sleep in a small kennel we had there from our last dog.
With regards to laminate flooring, I don't think it will be harming him directly, but as his feet slide quite a bit on there, I think it has makes his hocks stay loose in the long run. As he is spending less time in his pen and also less time on tiled and laminated flooring, his wobbly hocks are improving.
As I mentioned, I am going to attend a show on May 15 where I will get to meet and see quite a few of his half siblings. Hopefully, this will give me a better indication of how and why he hocks were so low. I have to say, they have improved significantly, but are nowhere as strong as my last GSD's.
Abby - we let him run around on the lawn everyday. I also try and take him to the park in the evenings so that he gets socialised with other dogs and also has a good run around. Where I used to take him for a 5-10 walk in the evenings on the advice of his breeder, I now taken him for about 30 mins. With regards to swimming, but I don't have the time to take my children swimming on a regular basis let alone the pup. Sorry, just being honest here!
Once again, I really appreciate all the comments and advice. It has been really helpful and I have taken everything on board.
Here are a couple of more pics of him from this weekend taken in the garden...
Sitasmom - I was not letting him run around too much on the advice of his breeder. However, subsequent to that, I have been talking to another breeder (this one introduced me to the one whom I bought my pup from) and this other breeder has my pup's half sister. The half sister was the same up until she was about 10 months old. This breeder has told me to road walk him much more than I have been. Also, as the weather is much better here in London, we have been leaving him out on the decking in the day. The area is quite big and he walks around freely all day. He is only crated/penned over night. It probably came out wrong, but we do not only let him out on weekends, that would be so cruel!! But yes, he was penned when he was younger and only let out in slippery floors all the time.
So, during the week he is out free. I should point out that my wife is home during the day so the back door is normally open for him to venture in and out of the house as he pleases. He prefers it outside though and has been started to sleep in a small kennel we had there from our last dog.
With regards to laminate flooring, I don't think it will be harming him directly, but as his feet slide quite a bit on there, I think it has makes his hocks stay loose in the long run. As he is spending less time in his pen and also less time on tiled and laminated flooring, his wobbly hocks are improving.
As I mentioned, I am going to attend a show on May 15 where I will get to meet and see quite a few of his half siblings. Hopefully, this will give me a better indication of how and why he hocks were so low. I have to say, they have improved significantly, but are nowhere as strong as my last GSD's.
Abby - we let him run around on the lawn everyday. I also try and take him to the park in the evenings so that he gets socialised with other dogs and also has a good run around. Where I used to take him for a 5-10 walk in the evenings on the advice of his breeder, I now taken him for about 30 mins. With regards to swimming, but I don't have the time to take my children swimming on a regular basis let alone the pup. Sorry, just being honest here!
Once again, I really appreciate all the comments and advice. It has been really helpful and I have taken everything on board.
Here are a couple of more pics of him from this weekend taken in the garden...
by Abby Normal on 13 April 2011 - 13:04
Sangar
Lovely shots of him, handsome looking chap. Fair enough if you can’t swim him, only stating what I would do. He certainly is improving and I think you will find the increased exercise will make a big difference. Hopefully he will improve more if he can muscle up generally in the hindquarters (which the exercise will help with).
You say your last GSD had much stronger hocks. If your last GSD wasn’t a WG Show Line, that would more than likely be why. WG SL are known for hock issues, and I am sure that the continuing trend for overangulation contributes to this. If you look at a Working Line puppy or adult, you will see a marked difference in construction. I have never seen a WL puppy with this problem ever. They stand correctly on their hocks from the moment they can stand through to adulthood, because their construction supports it. I guess that’s why I am drawing away from showlines and more towards W/L or S/L x W/L more and more. A pup should be able to stand up and move properly regardless of what ‘line’ it is from.
Do let us know how you get on at the show, and how he compares to his half siblings. I am really pleased for you that he is improving.
Lovely shots of him, handsome looking chap. Fair enough if you can’t swim him, only stating what I would do. He certainly is improving and I think you will find the increased exercise will make a big difference. Hopefully he will improve more if he can muscle up generally in the hindquarters (which the exercise will help with).
You say your last GSD had much stronger hocks. If your last GSD wasn’t a WG Show Line, that would more than likely be why. WG SL are known for hock issues, and I am sure that the continuing trend for overangulation contributes to this. If you look at a Working Line puppy or adult, you will see a marked difference in construction. I have never seen a WL puppy with this problem ever. They stand correctly on their hocks from the moment they can stand through to adulthood, because their construction supports it. I guess that’s why I am drawing away from showlines and more towards W/L or S/L x W/L more and more. A pup should be able to stand up and move properly regardless of what ‘line’ it is from.
Do let us know how you get on at the show, and how he compares to his half siblings. I am really pleased for you that he is improving.
by steve1 on 14 April 2011 - 06:04
Sangar
I am a working Shepherd Guy and i know little about show lines although having seen quite a few working.
To help the Pup with his Joints i would recommend that you change your Kibble to Acana Large breed Puppy for 5 months then put him on an adult Acana after that, But most important is to put on his morning Feed a squirt of Salmon Oil and a teaspoon of Hokamix Joint Powder, This Hokamix i swear by, having used it for a very long time now and reared numerous Puppies up on it from 8 weeks old
Every German Shepherd Pup given this on his food finished up with 'a normal Joints Hips and Elbows', I am certain it helps throughout the growth period, But my Dogs whatever age get it every morning, If you take a look on the all breeds forum, on my post 'THE WORST TIME FOR A GERMAN SHEPHERD OWNER, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION' you will see a Photo of the Joints of my Latest young dogs X-Rays, waiting to be verified
Exercise your Pup must have, It is suprising how much you can give them without straining the Pups Joints walking is good, too much running is not but do not worry or treat the Pup with Kid Gloves. The weight of the Pup is about right, better lean to the fine side than above for now
Good luck and i hope everything goes well for the Pup
You can buy Hokamix Joint from www.zooplus.uk
Steve 1
I am a working Shepherd Guy and i know little about show lines although having seen quite a few working.
To help the Pup with his Joints i would recommend that you change your Kibble to Acana Large breed Puppy for 5 months then put him on an adult Acana after that, But most important is to put on his morning Feed a squirt of Salmon Oil and a teaspoon of Hokamix Joint Powder, This Hokamix i swear by, having used it for a very long time now and reared numerous Puppies up on it from 8 weeks old
Every German Shepherd Pup given this on his food finished up with 'a normal Joints Hips and Elbows', I am certain it helps throughout the growth period, But my Dogs whatever age get it every morning, If you take a look on the all breeds forum, on my post 'THE WORST TIME FOR A GERMAN SHEPHERD OWNER, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION' you will see a Photo of the Joints of my Latest young dogs X-Rays, waiting to be verified
Exercise your Pup must have, It is suprising how much you can give them without straining the Pups Joints walking is good, too much running is not but do not worry or treat the Pup with Kid Gloves. The weight of the Pup is about right, better lean to the fine side than above for now
Good luck and i hope everything goes well for the Pup
You can buy Hokamix Joint from www.zooplus.uk
Steve 1
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
