Old Fashion Large German Shepherds - Page 5

mmmm sock puppet because im a bit nit picky... i would venture to say that being large in itself is not the issue... Exceeding the mass your frame was meant to hold definitely is.  I think the real issue with a good number of large dogs is the simple fact that people designed them and not nature....

Many wolves are naturally found at well over 100 pounds and not only do they function better they don't suffer most of the size related problems that dogs do...  

Any who I agree with you both in that their are many working breeders who breed exaggerated super drivey dogs that aren't very normal pet household friendly. But that doesn't mean that working breeders that breed for a balanced dog should be penalized.. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that one of  the most attractive points thats supposed to be in our breed? Well roundedness  a dog thats edgy enough  to understand schutzhund and personal protection and do well in these venues, but intelligent enough to understand and  know when there is no place for it like when playing with small children or when doing therapy work?

I just think that some of the super edgy working line breeders are more interested in the sport or protection aspect to bother with  focusing on keeping the stable calm house enviroment aspect  bred into the dog.

And some of those who focus on breeding for a pet house hold only breed for that calm stability and just expect that natural protective edge to be there when needed....  And yes some are breeding out some of the dogs natural capabilites.

Either way Kimmelot can you explain why lanes doesn't have their own breeding goals/plan and has decided to take someone elses? not picking on you but your the only one who seems to know him personally and he has since stop commenting.  Isn't that one of the first things you need to have before you breed? A reason WHY you should be breeding in the first place?

Sangreinu,

Right you are sometimes I have trouble writing what I am trying to say. Thank you for clarifing.

SP

Sock Puppet my dear , your bigger= more defective logic just flew out the window.. I see a huge elephant coming.. and its not defective , and it lives longer than any GSD ever known. How about chihuahua's and yorkies.. oppisite is true with the tiny ones, the smaller they are the shorter lives they will likley live with liver shunts and all sorts of defects.

Sangreinu - ( mouthfull there) - I was deeply involved with scrubbing buckets.. sorry I did not comment in the last 5 mins.

I am totaly sorry you feel jipped out of what breeding goals your speaking of , I guess all the other VS should just stop copying his goals too. Its not a free world, we don't have choices, we can't copy what another does- god that would make us villians.     Yes I did see that some other large GSD breeder was saying he was plegerizing her goals, where is that thread, and is it so ? Is it word for word copied ? Or is it an idea that was used for one's own benifit ? Either way that is not what this is all about.

About oversized dogs/wolves- holy mollie', we have a Bass Pro Shop that was just built here in Manteca last year, they have stuffed wolves that seem OHH so huge to me.. they would dwarf any of my oversized GSDs.

Whisper <- Back to throwing a pine shavings party.

An elephant is supposed to be large. But now lets take that same elephant and breed him to be twice the size. Is that good for him? Or lets say we take said elephant and feed it twice as much is that good for him. I give up if you want a large dog go for it but you will never convince me of the benifits, even if someone makes a website and fills it with novels of bullshit. Do you breed to the standard? If so then how is this to the standard or are you suggesting the standard should be changed to oh lets say to encompass the not just large GSD but the mammouth GSD that is surely to follow so lets make the standard 150 pounds and oh what the hell lets say 36 tall. There now it is all good.

I wove you SP ... If you have such a hard time accepting a large GSD, how come no one rag's on the 21 inch 40 lb undersized GSDs ?

I have a male that is just over standard.. I am not going to extremes.. but I don't go about looking for people doing something different and attacking them. My bitches are within standard (one is over-sized) , except most have the softer temperaments that make them OK for softer non-confronting rolls like herding or SAR.   
I have produced dogs that where nearly as large as Lane's, not that I am proud of that, but when you have open genetics by outbreeding for diffrent qualitys  its going to happen. Are those dogs less likley to live as long because they are geneticly weaker - no ! People are coming back and buying from us that have had there dogs 10, 12, 13 years - Puppies that where sold when I was just a teenager.

You can imagine what you will, I don't care if your dogs where purple as long as you where caring for them, placing them in appropriate homes, and the shelter was not full of them. I can't say why this was all started- unless there was an old thread that he just felt like bringing up- but what I can say is that we have a choice and are not limited to what one person's ideals are .


Whisper <-- Off to have lunch, play with kids.. you know have a life.

I am not attacking him. I just want to know the purpose of this thread as it would have served him better if he put it in classified. It almost seems like an ad.

If it was an old thread at least link to it so everyone is on the same page.

Whisper my male is also at the high end of the standard but I am not on purpose going to try and breed to over the standard hell when is enough enough.

One last thought if a person was trying to breed that little guy you are talking about don't you think they would have received the same welcome? No one is going to like that sized dog being breed want to know why... it is called a standard.

Kimmelot ,

It's not that i feel deprived of his breeding  goals, but doesn't every breeder have them? Even if it is just to make money the goal is still  there.  And if he can't even make up his own breeding goals honest or not... how honest can one expect him to be with his potential customers?

Have you actually  read both pages?  the links are here on the board. It IS practically VERBATEM  Lane's only changes the wording of a sentence here or there. Specifically where the other person mentions their kennel name... Even the personal experiences the other person has within the text are copied.....

He has taken someone elses  written thoughts,  ideas and experiences and  displaying them as if they were his own. IE plagiarism. Taking credit for something he didn't do.   It has nothing to do with following someones example because you like the way they do things, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I have a feeling you already know i wasn't referring to that. so why bring it up? 

The original author has even asked him not to use their work... I think common decency should fall in to play here but it obviously hasn't.

I don't mind a healthy oversized dog, but what does it say for the character and moral ethics of the person breeding them if they are knowingly  deceiving and lying to their prospective buyers?  I don't care what kind of dog one says they're breeding if they couldn't even take the time to write your own truthful experiences ( or heck leave them out all together over taking someone elses) how is ANYone supposed to believe they didn't  take shortcuts elsewhere in their breeding program? 


P.S      why  did you "appologize"  for not answering in the last 5 min? It's not like I said anything about you refusing to answer  or taking to long.......

Off to do some real world stuff of my own  ta ta now

Sangre

Let's also note that those larger dogs are going to be eating MORE food than your 1/2 sized dogs.

They are not "1/2 sized dogs", they are "standard sized dogs".  V. Stephanitz was worried sick that people would turn his breed into something other than a MEDIUM WORKING DOG.  

Here is a quote from V. Stephanitz, an excellent TIMELESS example of warning against fad breeding:


My main “warning-cry” concerns itself with the direction of the breed, which many breeders – many novices – still subscribe to, a direction that would lead us off the beaten path, far off of our breed goal; toward breed ruin.

In all my articles, lectures, and judges reports of the last few years, I have desperately tried to point out that we must cling to the breed standard of the working dog, and I gave reasons why we must do so – as it was once laid down, as a model of the breed’s design. I have emphasized over and over again that we should not get overly engrossed in details of outward characteristics, even if they are ever so attractive, when, for the breeding value of the dog, he must be based entirely and decisively upon the totality of hard constitution, good health, endurance, authentic working structure and stable temperament.

The vision, the understanding of this standard, is thus sometimes lost. Many young fanciers have unfortunately hardly ever seen correct conformation in respect to these dogs. They become intoxicated with appearance which so often has so little in common with the working dog as he is supposed to be. In this case, the only thing that helps is trusted faith in the system, until one’s pondering leads to eventual understanding. The belief in what is well meant – the thoughtful suggestions and guiding principles – are for the welfare of the breed’s future.
 
I'm not "putting anyone down here", the poster posted that he chooses to breed animals which are GSD in name only, as he intentionally does not want to meet the breed standard criteria in temperament or structure. So, he can't possibly think that true breed stewards are going to pat him on the ass for it.  Sure, there will always be those who want an oversized, deadhead dog of *most* of the purpose bred working breeds, because they want the glamour without any of the responsibility that goes along with ownership of a working dog.  I just happen to think that instead of "dumbing down" a working breed for these folks, he should perhaps direct them toward an already existing breed that more nearly fits the bill.    

Sangre, LOL I did not realize that you said he did not come back to post- I was reading as if what you where saying was to me . Sorry about that.

Dianne can you please Cite where you found this information, I would also like some one to come out and list where I can read this book - for some reason no one has it all compiled in one place , they are only using the bits and peices to make themselves look better..    Also it says nothing about the size of the dogs in the information you sited, only that younger people where being intoxicated by the looks of a dog- yet it was not even one that would be held to a higher standard. 
 
I understand there are standards.. I don't think Lane wants to sell you dogs, he only is selling to Joe B Public . I don't know yet why he even started this thread. 

SHOW ME THAT BIG GLOP OF GOO WORKING OR STFU AND ADMIT THAT YOU ARE BREEDING BIG FAT PETS.

Stop stretching a thread into 42 pages when the bottom line is, the German Shepherd dog  by standard, is defined as a medium sized versatile service dog.  Do we have video of these dogs herding sheep?  Do we have video of these dogs doing police work?  Schutzhund (which was developed by the founders of the breed as an evaluatory test for that breed) work?  KNPV?  French Ring?  NVBK? Agility?  AKC obedience?  ANYTHING?

ANYTHING?