Old Fashion Large German Shepherds - Page 2

Read your own subject title, my friend. It alone infers that GSDs "used to be" these enormous dogs. They were never meant to be that large and any dog bred to that size from the inception of the breed to today is oversize. Period.

Really so I guess you must be the dog god because you say so.

"They were never meant to be that large and any dog bred to that size from the inception of the breed to today is oversize. Period."

Just so you know you really should  study your dogs you knowdledge is so limited.

The true "German Old Style", a Sieger from the 1920s. The dog's dry bone, leg length, shallow chest and square proportions make the breed's kinship with the northern Malinois quite apparent. The breed's founder decided that a more powerful dog was wanted, with a lower stationed, trotting structure that was not so massive as to detract from the dog's speed and agility. These early dogs are the breed's foundation and history,


Let me explain how this works since you don't seem to understand. My dogs are bty the more powerfull dogs they speak of and they are any size I want them to be and what you have to say about it mounts to a hill of beans as far as I am comcern. That's why they are my dogs and you have nothing to say about it.

Wow. Who made you an expert?

Somewhere I have a link that lists all the changes to the SV breed standard. Unfortunately, I can't find it right now. However, I did find THIS!:

Von Stephanitz had become alarmed at the trend in the breed toward oversized square dogs. Other problems included lack of steady temperament and faults of dentition. He and the breed wardens decided drastic measures needed to be taken. At the 1925 Sieger show von Stephanitz selected Klodo von Boxberg as world sieger. This dog was dramatically different from the type of dog that had gone before him. He was of lower station, deeper and longer in body, short in loin and with a far-reaching gait. As it turned out Klodo proved to be a potent sire, successfully heralding a "new" type of shepherd. 
 
 

www.nsgsdc.com/breedhistory.shtml


Too bad my books are still in boxes from my move, or I would pull out my copy of Max's book. I'm sure that would give the original standard.

 From your site:

"My puppies generally cost $2,000.00 (akc pet registration) dollars. All other puppies sold (with full akc breeding registration) will cost $3,000.00--no distinction between males or females in price. Total price of puppy is due before delivery. If you would like to take your puppy home the same day Please bring your balance or payment in CASH. All older pups 4 -5 months with light obedience/house training and hip x-rays already done (good vets can find HD by four months) will cost at least $4,500.00. "

Like nailing Jello to a tree...I don't have anything left to say. Enjoy your dogs.

WOW KC that was quite enlightening!! Never checked out the site but you're right...that does say it all!!!  I would like to know the vet that can find HD by 4 months.If a dog is so dysplastic at 4 mo then yea a vet can tell but to call it at that age on one that isn't showing it and to guarentee that it won't get it....that's a bunch of BS!! Would be nice if a vet could tell at that young of age.That way they can let me know if the puppy that I am training up for SAR is ok.Then I know to continue or to get another pup.

(good vets can find HD by four months) will cost at least $4,500.00. "

To quote Slamdunc: "Isn't that special?" [insert sarcasm emoticon] 

Cha-ching!  Dollar signs and nothing else, what an idiot.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/1629.html  - Kczaja - Bad link example with comments that say
"Technically Hussan was a better specimen than Utz v Haus Schutting. The breeding that produced Hussan was contrary to all the recommendations of Von Stephanitz. Is it possible that the creation of this dog could have hastened the end of Von Stephanitz?"

Well if Von Stephaniz did not approve of this breeding, and yet there was a dog that was better than his Utz.... makes one think ??

As for showing Horand http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/1208.html , that is also such a bad example.. your own dog does not look anything like this dog.. neither does mine.. lol .. I think this dog was loved, intellegent and everything that VS wanted his dogs to embody for the future.. but the fact that he keep choosing dogs that looked diffrent and keep changing and allowing new "jobs" for his beloved breed should show that our versitile dog can and should be able to fit many diffrent molds. ( personaly liked the look of a grandson named Beowolf , he looked nearly black, had a deeper chest and a very masculine and modern looking head on him.. really looked like dogs of today)

( BTW in Hussan's ped pictures UTZ looks very simular to Lane's body style , and looking on the dam's side with the lighter pigmented dogs the dog of the mother looks very simular to a bitch that I own- lots of fun seeing those pictures)

The OFFA does prelimbs at 4 months old ... I guess we can't fight the facts now can we ???


From http://offa.org/hipprelim.html  08/01/2010   

The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases.

A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months).

*Corley, EA, et al. Reliability of Early Radiographic Evaluation for Canine Hip Dysplasia Obtained from the Standard Ventrodorsal Radiographic Projection. JAVMA. Vol 211, No. 9, November 1997.




edit- Lane has been pushing me to OFA final my A-stamp male.. I am seriously concidering it.

Our old trainer had rescued a pregnant bitch from a horrible situation, and sure enough the pups were oversized and by 6 months of age 1 had to be put down because it could barely move - there were essentially no hip sockets.  The skeleton hasn't even matured at that point, so it's impossible to know what will happen by maturity unless the problem is severe.

Here's what bothers me the most, and I know this happens in other breeds, is that someone decides that want a dog with a particular characteristic that isn't within the standard and breeds for it anyways.  Capt. Max did that, but he developed a NEW breed and took great care in trying to assure that breeding stock was chosen wisely.  I know the Shiloh is a breed "under development," and the originator is clear in stating that the dogs are NOT GSDs and is consciencious in documenting all breedings.  There is a separate registry for white GSDs, and again care is taken to ensure health and proper documentation. 

If you don't like a particular aspect of a breed, there are a ton of other breeds out there that may have that characteristic.  Unless you're willing to dedicate the time into thoroughly researching genetics and documenting the breedings required to start a new breed, just stop.  You are not the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Everyone has preferences, but if you're going to advertise your dogs as "purebred" anything at least try to make sure that they adhere to the accepted standard for that breed.  Otherwise that registration is just a meaningless piece of paper.

The hardest dogs to adopt out from shelters are the large, hairy ones.   Please don't make more just because you can.  All of the breeders I've met, from a large one that has taken dogs to national level competition and has multiple litters per year to one that has a 1 litter every 2 or 3 years has taken great care in selecting the dogs they breed and ensuring the health, temperament, ability to work, and correctness of the breeding pair in order to increase the odds that the resulting puppies will have the best characteristics of both parents.  It's a huge responsibility, and good breeders don't take it lightly.