What is a Gansta Dog? - Page 3

In recent posts, some guys concentrated on bullshit we hear from old timers about certain dogs' qualities and reality. As in all people, some old timers are intelligent and can tell the difference and some can't, some tell the truth as it is and some don't.
Not all one hears is true and correct, but some is

I always tell my self, you have the right to tell your views, but sometime you better shut up and listen

 

Ajax from Duke I have never seen him for real only some videos in the past looks like serious dog to me.

 

Look, in dogs there are always variations in a theme, but that doesn't change the general topic. There is no conflict in what Prager and I am saying. In each of the cases listed; Wasko went to Nationals with Gary Hanrahan, one of the great trainers/handlers in USA IPO history. Grappo went to nationals with T Floyd. Gero was titled in Czech Rep so he was also handled in ob,tr,and protection.
I remember when T first got Grappo, trust me there were some serious conversations held between those two. I remember asking T how things were making out with Grappo in terms of getting him ready to compete in nationals, and he said to me and I quote" we have a nice understanding, I don't push him too much and he don't push me too much"....in other words mutual respect instead of handler domination. Some may understand what I am speaking of....others probably won't.
It's impossible for me to concisely portray this type of dog to doubters, nor would I try, but maybe one day you may see this type of dog to have clarity.

Btw, I don't know if I qualify as an old timer, but Wasko and Grappo are surely known by some others on this board, if what I write about these dogs is BS please correct me, or give your account of what you know of these dogs.

Also, I think some people romanticize the term " gangsta" in forming their perception of these dogs lacking actual experience or first hand knowledge. They are certainly not dogs for everyone, to be sure, but they have place in breed if used and bred intelligently.

".....'we have a nice understanding, I don't push him too much and he don't push me too much'....in other words mutual respect instead of handler domination." ~ Gustav

I know exactly what you mean and can relate...that describes my relationship with my dog, Otto, ( vids posted of him as green dog on bite suit on the 'Defense' thred)

Trying to get it, seems like gangsta definition is more handler aggression than anything?

Aggression towards anyone or any dog attempting to dominate the dog, not restricted to handler...decoys are gangster bait:-)

Give an example of not limited to handler. During my training of Otto's grandsire, ( who I would define as gangster),the dog was breaking the down before he was supposed to on the 'escape bite'. He was only about a year and a half old at the time and I really wanted to correct the behavior before it became fixed. I back tied him, I'm standing in basic position, had him on the down and with plenty of slack in the back tie so's he did not cue off it. I also had a long line on him, with a friend who was experienced in training standing 15 feet or so behind hold the long line. A neutral person holding the sleeve in a neutral fashion walked out of range in front and perpendicular to me and the dog.when the dog broke the down, the guy on the long line silently gave a quick correction with the line. I gave down command at the same time....that dog turned around in a blink of an eye and lunged for the guy holding the long line ! Was a big fat fail ! The dog would not accept the correction even when we thought the guy was out of the dog's zone. Anyway, I ended up doing bite obedience to get him to remain down till they decoy broke for the escape.

vk you are a greenhorn with one GSD so it does not really matter if "you buy it "or not ;) . You would be better served to just listen then to talk. The advice is heart felt. Sorry for being rough but after the post you just made I can't help it.
BTW I totally agree with Gustav. Also Gero liked Jiri and showed it on the video, but Jiri had healthy respect and as Gustav said they had understanding- Jiri would not push Gero and Gero then would not push back. That is the only way to go and the art of handling of such dogs which only the best like Jiri can do and make look easy and dilettantes do not understand and never will until they see such dog.
I do not see any disagreement between what I am saying and what Gustav is saying. Gero was epitome of a Gangster dog . Once buyer came to test him. He put e collar on Gero. Jiri advised against it but let him do it when this "expert" insisted.
This guy heeled the dog and when the dog would not sit on command he nicked him on collar, Gero flinched but would not sit. Second nick Gero looked at the handler 3rd nick Gero grabbed his upper arm and broke his humerus bone with one shake.
BTW there never bad been nothing wrong with Gero's rare end.
Prager Hans