IPO vs "Real Dog" - Page 4

I prefer to do IPO with a balanced dog that will get "real". A dog that is serious and isn't out there just playing Frisbee with the helper. I don't like a dog or training that isn't balanced. Sure, I love my dogs to have super high prey drive. Makes things like obedience that much easier, but I like to have a good balance of defense, fight , and a civil side. Nothing I hate more than to see a dog whining/begging for the sleeve in the blind. IPO protection work is a lot of prey rewarding exercises. Running the blinds, Escape, attack in transport, etc. even the courage test gets you more points and looks a lot better when the dog is over the top in prey and sees the helper as a Frisbee. Rarely do you see a malinois gather in the courage test. why would you? That isn't a big, bad guy halfway down the field, that's a big toy, Frisbee.

Like I said, I like a balanced dog and balanced training. Give me a criminal that will eat people with a ton of prey drive and I'm one happy fella, but you have to have strong nerves and courage.

Sorry Smokin Joe, but can you repeat the question...?

good explanation Chaz
and BW you are spot on with your last quote,about an IPO dog
and again let me say, nothing wrong with that and hats off for the smart toptrainers in IPO

@ VK, and pups from titled parents,,, father is grandson of ...... etc , are no selling tools, what do those phrases tell you about the actual pups offered

"
father is grandson of ...... etc , are no selling tools, "

Yes good point, oh well commercial dog world is as shitty as it gets.

Do you guys think that there are real dogs that at the same time can enjoy a family social life?

If so any suggestion on EU breeders, that produce these type of dogs?

As Susie said, some of the real dogs have high civil aggression, and the ones i have met were exactly like that, "shoot first ask question later" type of dogs, which does not make them the best citizens..

"Give me a criminal that will eat people with a ton of prey drive and I'm one happy fella, but you have to have strong nerves and courage"

Good point Chaz.

High prey certainly bring a lot of power to the work once the dog properly associates the target with the prey. But if off the field the dog is a " suck up ", then how do we rationalize the usefulness of this dog outside the " sport ".

A dog is not “out of control” off the field because it’s trained not to be. Read above…most people don’t want their dog biting off the field, or even reacting. Police dogs don’t react to every single person that comes near them. You want a dog to react to every single person? Train it to do so. A dog that does this “automatically” or “genetically” does not equal a strong dog…you argue this each and every time but in most cases, a dog that reacts aggressively “naturally” to anything or anyone that comes near it, is fearful and reactive…it’s usually not doing this out of dominance or confidence.

Just because my dog is social and doesn’t feel the need to rip into every person that comes near him, doesn’t make him useless off the field. What it does make him is a dog that has never been tested off the field, and probably will never be tested off the field because I don’t live in an area where that is likely to happen. In the United States…a dog that bites is a liability…even substantiated bites are going to be a headache for the owner. Most people will never be in a situation with their GSD on their side that requires that dog to defend them.

If you want to keep assuming that IPO trained dogs won’t protect their owners, I suggest you visit more than the one IPO club you’ve ever been to and start messing around the dogs. Doing creepy things, not just “coming up to them and acting friendly.” Do things that a normal person (not yourself) would expect their dog to react to. Make it a situation that the dog might find weird and see how the dog reacts. Again…not just coming up and being friendly or normal, but actually acting like a threat. If you’re brave enough, go ahead and grab a handler while their dog is near them. Also, make sure that people aren’t expecting it, just show up one day and start doing those things. Don’t make any plan, any set up, just go around and act weird, grab people, etc. Let me know how the dogs react. Time to put your money where your mouth is and test your theories that you adamantly repeat after reading them on other forums. Go and test the dogs yourself.

hmmm dont know any IPO trainer that would allow anybody to do so and also that would be possible to harm their carefull build up dog,as every point counts out there
just let sport dogs be sport dogs and let the good breeders decide for themselves which one they use, at least that is what is happening in europe with the top breeders, not the wannabees, who all have the same list of used studs over the last ten years

 

Yes with a real dog you can also do flyball go to the supermarket go to the airport
play with kids, play with other dogs , bite several decoys, doing some tracking in the city.etc etc
This dog is in  harmony - balance everywhere and will do his job when time will come...

I don,t need an idiot who will fight and is agresive everywhere I call this dogs not stable and not in balance.

Real (Alpha) dogs don,t need this kind of behaviour, a real dog is confident and in balance and clear in the head

Its the human who build mythes around them real protetction dogs,dog 1 etc etc blah blah blah....

I don,t get this topic  IPO dog vs Real dog.......... there are many charactar dogs on the IPO fields around the world , IPO shows only a very small piece what  the dog realy is  learned and trained over those years for sure the dog has more qualities.???

Lol duke...my point was that Mithuna has never tested IPO dogs. He's got a few stories of the one or two dogs he's met and was surprised that they didn't light up on him within seconds and that he was able to approach the owner without the dog trying to rip his throat out. He needs to figure out that it's training and says nothing about the dog's strength and ability off the field.

 

BM...why did you edit your post? It was very insightful!