Bite box training - Page 4

"Whoooooa.....................Let's back the bus up and not jump to conclusions; let's not get carried away.  I probably would like the dog, I love all dogs.  It is clear that you have created some conflict in the dog;  it is also good that you are training with people to help you resolve the issues."

Indeed I have and I saw this coming.  That is precisely why I asked you a few months ago to give me guidance on how you work a conflict-free out but you were not forthcoming with that advice.  Why not?

"We won't be having a beer at the WUSV together."

I'm sorry you feel that way but have fun at the event nonetheless.  We'll be there.

 

For the record, I am betting the out problem has been caused by you
Keith, no offense, but I am betting the conflict you put your dog in is the
main root of it. As soon as your dog gets the bite, the real fight STARTS,
only the fight is with YOU and everyone else around. You are not your dogs
partner in his mind, you are another combatant. There is a relatively simple
way to fix that sort of problem, however it is not a quick fix, and cannot have 
success if you don't change your ways in dealing with the dog, both on and 
off the field. Not trying to nitpick you Keith, just being blunt. It's not an issue
that the dog loves to gain possession of objects, that's normal in almost any
nice working dog, but your out problem started with you, not with the dog.

I'd like to see more video of the dog, including how he is currently being worked
to out, after seeing that, I bet I could set you on a path that will work, but? again,
it is not an instant path, and it's going to take time and consistency on your part
to be able to have success with it. The biggest thing is to remove the conflict
you are giving your dog. He should look to you as a partner not another person
to fight. Change that outlook and the rest will fall into place easily.

Keith, there is a young dog I have seen since he was a puppy, this particular dog is
about as hard as I have seen, handler hard-that is putting it mildly!  He has taken
pressure as a puppy that would send most adult dogs into avoidance, and he simply
comes back stronger. His owner has no issue with the out, and trust me when I say
this dog loves to FIGHT, are they lightening quick outs? No, but? He understands
that his handler is there to support him, not fight against him, and he has a super
bond with her. He will out even when he doesn't want to. Because there is very crystal
clear partnership with the handler and dog. Slam has seen a few videos of this 
dog, he is no wallflower, and neither is his owner. But I am sure Slam would agree,
there is a very crystal clear bond with the handler and this goes a long way in the
control department.Was it always this perfect with the dog? No, because she did
have some (and continues) to have some issues with this dog, but only because
he is SO much dog. But? At the end of the day, the basic relationship with the dog
is very clear to him, and he will work with her, not against her. 

I'm not overly sold on bite boxes, tables etc. However I do believe that when used
correctly, they can be used to help intensify and fine tune work in a dog, but the 
key words here are 'used correctly'. Quite frankly, I think far too many people are
simply lazy and the table etc are put in to use instead of going back to basics 
and teaching the dog all good things start when HE starts them, not the helper.
I also think there are far too many people that use these things without knowing
how to properly use them. They can cause a whole load more problems than you
are trying to solve. 
 

Jim, will catch up with you hopefully, I am planning on hosting some trainers and breeders from both sides of the pond at a hospitality suite in the evening....would love for you to be there.
cliff

One last thing, there is nothing wrong with people posting or becoming involved in threads that they are new or have limited knowledge, that is not what some of us are saying, it's when you come on the board and condemn or put down that which you know nothing about, that it borders on insanity to me. If I want to learn I ask questions or present appropriate comparisons or inquire of applicable examples, etc......but to condemn or criticize that which you don't understand, especially when you see creditable trainers or breeders trying to explain it.......doesn't make it  or them necessarily right....but should beg the novice or beginner to inquire instead of criticize.......at least to my way of thinking. 

It's never too late and you're never too old to learn something new...If you just take the time to listen...Sometimes you just learn what not to do...

~Bob~
 

Interesting topic,

Enjoy WUSV.

vk4gsd

ok, so I had to add this..

you comparing leprosy and box training is one of the dumbest comparisons I have heard in a long time.. and I have to admit I hear some dumb shit! LOL

Martina,
LOL!  Will you be at the WUSV?  

Martina,
LOL.. you made me crack up!

"you comparing leprosy and box training is one of the dumbest comparisons I have heard in a long time.. and I have to admit I hear some dumb shit! LOL"

pack if you keep hearing dumb shit the receiver is prolly faulty, you might want to get it checked, i was demonstrating the poor logic behind gustav's statement, which has only been matched by yr really weak attempt to invoke a formal straw man fallacy, you must associate with a lot of dumb asses if that has worked for you in the past, another piece of evidence why yr hearing so much dumb shit as you say.