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by momosgarage on 19 February 2015 - 18:02
@GSDNewbie, in the german language section, 3.1, there is mention of Guide Dogs.
NAPWDA's "Police Utility Dog" certification does include all three, in fact it has 6 phases. Yes, they can be taken separately but the "Police Utility Dog" title does has obedience phase, protection phase and detection phase and all must be passed on the same day to get the "Police Utility Dog" title:
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NORTH AMERICAN POLICE WORK DOG ASSOCIATION “POLICE UTILITY DOG” CERTIFICATION TITLE
To obtain a “Police Utility Dog" certification title, the police work dog team must pass all phases of the utility dog testing areas. Prior to testing for this title, the handler must notify the Master Trai ner of his/her intent to obtain this title. The testing will be conducted during a one day test, unless it is conducted during a NAPWDA national or state workshop.
1.) Obedience (MUST be passed to go on to the other areas)
2.) Article Search
3.) Area Search
4.) Tracking or Trailing
5.) Building Search
6.) Aggression Control
Also if you look at the NNDDA certification it says "To certify a police service dog you must pass temperament test, obedience, criminal apprehension, building and area search"
I think the burden would be on the SV's to issue a rejection of the submitted title. Until such a rejection is offered, there is no reason to assume these titles are not equviilant.
.

by susie on 19 February 2015 - 19:02
"I think the burden would be on the SV's to issue a rejection of the submitted title. Until such a rejection is offered, there is no reason to assume these titles are not equviilant."
You are thinking from the wrong direction - SV doesn´t need to recognize anything that´s not coming from SV itself, VDH, WUSV, or FC, as ong as the rules of SV are not affected.

by momosgarage on 19 February 2015 - 19:02
But that's the issue, the SV didn't say whom needed to issue the title and they also didn't have any rules stating what specifically needed to be done to earn the title, to be equivalent to the IPO1-3. Remember the SV also said they do not regulate the judges of these police/military dog titles, nor do they specify where it must come from. They basically said "ask around". To me, that says its open to interpretation and/or until an official rejection is received, after a submittal is reviewed by the SV. That still doesn't clear up why the SV office doesn't consider it a breed survey level title, but the section 3.1 that you posted, outlines circumstsances when the DH would be considered a breed survey level title.

by susie on 19 February 2015 - 19:02
"To me, that says its open to interpretation and/or until an official rejection is received after a submittal is reviewed by the SV."
That´s what you want to read, not what is true. There is an official DH1 and DH2 trial, and that´s what is according to the rules, nothing else.
In reality there are almost no DH trials, but that´s what it is.

by momosgarage on 19 February 2015 - 19:02
Thats not what the SV said to me, they said they don't regulate it and have no rules for it. They said the DH is issued by organizations that are not subject to their oversight. I do believe you and understand that there are organizations in Germany issuing a DH1-2 with set rules and formal trials, but the SV is not saying that you have to do the DH with any specific organization.

by susie on 19 February 2015 - 19:02
Either you misunderstood or the person writing had problems with the foreign language - sorry.

by momosgarage on 19 February 2015 - 19:02
They answered me in english and wrote this:
"exams can only be performed by the respective authority and organization such as police departments, the military sections where dogs are employed, and other administrative bodies. These organizations provide for their own regulations which are subject to either their discretion or to local law and other legal requirements. Since there is such a variety of organizations and thus exam regulations we regret very much having to inform you that we have no access to that sort of comprehensive information.
If you require specific details we would advise you to refer to the organization and/ or police department that specializes in your field of interest"
For example, imagine if tomorrow, both NNDDA and NAPWDA started adding these words to the title certificates they issue:
"Diensthund equivalent, DH 1 or 2".
The SV is certainly within their rights to reject such a submittal for inclusion on pedigrees in their stud book, but there also isn't anything in their rules currently stating why they would reject it. Both NNDDA and NAPWDA can easily be described as "other administrative bodies"

by susie on 19 February 2015 - 19:02
It never happened, as far as I know.
That said SV will proof everything prior to acknowledigng any kind of "new" title, and that´s okay with me. How shall they know it´s according to the rules without control/proof?
There are a lot of fancy titles/trials out there all over the world, you can´t acknowledge all of them without formal proof ( and this means consistent stability according to SV rules ).
Once again, try it, but you will fail.

by momosgarage on 19 February 2015 - 19:02
I'm not saying they need to acknowledge "new titles". I asked the SV for the rules they use or those accepted for the Diensthund and what organizations are allowed to give the title. The answer I got was "subject to either their discretion or to local law and other legal requirements". In the USA, local laws sometimes require a USPCA, NAPWDA, IPWDA, NNDDA, certification for LEO's. If they start adding "Diensthund" to those certificates, I assume the SV at some point would want to give an official answer to the person whom submitted it as a DH.
Also doesn't Diensthund mean Service Dog? Does the title need to say DH 1-2 or just something with "service dog" in it? The SV didn't answer that part of my question

by susie on 19 February 2015 - 19:02
DH according to SV is similar to IPO, nothing else - NOT "service dog", just DH1 / DH2 .
Police used to participate on the BSP for a lot of years, they ended their participation ( if I remember well ) in the 90s.
You may think about this like you want, doesn´t change reality.
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