helper/decoy development - Page 3

I belong to a small club (5 full time members) plus a few associates.  In order for us to improve and all grow (handlers and helpers) we periodically invite local clubs out to train with us.  They get to train on a different field and we get the benefit of their helpers as well as new training ideas.  Our helper gets to work different dogs and do so under the eye of a top training helper.  A win/win for us.  Our club now has 2 certified helpers and sometimes 3 when our previous training director stops by.  I agree with the poster above, that the best option is for a helper to get with the best training helper in their area, work a lot of dogs under the direction of an expert.  If that is not an option, try inviting out a more experienced club/helper periodically. 

Cheryl

Slamdunc and Kim have given some very good advice.
vk4GSD said "slam aren't you LEO or something, is this just not what you do for a living? would you have done all this reading and learning if you were say a plumber and only did play with dogs in yr spare time after a hard day plumbing.


This made me think of a shirt I have... It says.....
TRAIN HARD because someday your training will decide whether or not YOU MAKE IT HOME"

No I am not a decoy... but I have been training in IPO since 1996. I have read alot of books, watched videos and gone to seminars. I have had the pleasure of meeting some of the best trainers/decoys out there. Unfortunatly most of them do not have the time to come onto this forum to comment.


My advice would be to go to as many seminars as train with as many good helpers as possible. Take notes... make videos if you can. Then you can go back and review what was done. Have some make videos of you doing helper work as well. Then you can look back at the positives so you know what worked.. and also the negatives so you know what NOT to do. I have learned over the years that if someone says they "know everything"... GO SOMEWHERE ELSE...

Although I am not a helper/decoy I have read the book Kim mentioned. It is a GREAT book.
 

Slam and Kim, you make some good points....you cannot really leave out any component in learning....books help, experience is imperative, and seminar all help to teach you to "read" dogs and techniques. Sport techniques and police techniques of decoding are very different partially because they are looking for different end results. Suit work vs sleeve work, vs sleeve work with bite bar vs muzzle work all require knowledge of technique and ability to read dog to Best use the equipment. A130 lb Bouvier that is as fast as a Mal is a much different dog to catch than a 130 lb Rottie. The bottom line in decoy work is experience and reading dogs, IMO.

Sorry if my post was depressing.  Kim, I have the book.  It is like learning alphabet.  It's sort a waste of money when you start real learning, the teaching helper will start from absolute beginning.  In fact, the more blank the slate, the better. Who would want to learn real Schutzhund helper work?  Working prey is easier.  Just scream and jump around.  Why take all the stress of not f'ing up your club dogs?  It's a thankless job.  But to me, I cannot be a good trainer if I cannot become a better helper.  I need to know both sides of the leash.  And one BIG thing I have learned from Lance Collins is this.  Dog behavioural theories are universal.  If you really understand why, how, when, and what threshold a dog does ANYTHING, it is transferable to all work, venues, sport, OB, bite, agility.....anything.  If you only learn to train situationally, you will be trapped.   But again, if one chooses to read, good.  But sometimes this makes people think they know what they are talking about, when obviously, their dog tells me they do not.  To me, the dog tells me if the helper is good.  

Peter-

You last post makes no sense.

Have a good night


Kim

Many very good points have been made about becoming educated. Some helpers are better at trial work than training and vice versa.  The more you can learn about canine behaviors, the different drives and reading the dog, the more effective a helper can become. None of this can occur over night. Remember the cartoon ""felix the cat" and his magic bag? The more tricks the helper has in his bag the better training helper he will be.  Some helpers and clubs for that matter can only  train certain types of dogs.  If the dog does not fit into their mold they will claim your dog is crap and you need to get another. The new helper needs reps and should understand that training is not about him but about the dog. New helpers should train on experienced to retired dogs not young dogs or pups. Find a teaching helper to follow and be mentored. Attend helper seminars when possible. Books are great but you need the practical application to understand what the book is talking about.  Helpers also need to be quick, agile and relatively good condition. But we also must be kind to our helpers.  Not many people are bold enough to put the sleeve on. Some clubs only have one helper. Who works the helpers dog.

Kyle

Well said Kyle




Kim

It is true . You can not learn from the books,...if you do not read them. 

Good one Hans

I think most people understood what I meant, that books are simply another tool in your belt of learning which aids you in your practical training.
 
The more practical skills you learn, the more you will find yourself going back and reading the book and comprehending more each time.  


Kim