Bitework Question: How should trainer progress. - Page 21

Lol Hans, I don't doubt your knowledge of the bloodlines or even your suspicions by looking at the picture.... I am aware of the inferences of a reverse mask. My comment was with regards to your presentation of the information for max effect to impress Mith. If u say u didnt look before you asked ok, I cant prove u wrong...just saying the pedigree is so easy to find its much more logical to say you looked, then posted in detail rather than wait for Mith to answer.

especially since he witheld answering until you shared your suspicions lol

Ignorant?

Go strap another muzzle on a scared dog Hans, you're much better at doing that than you are at having any sort of intelligent discussion.

"Reverse mask is a "myth"( as you say) which works almost 100% of a time."- that can win the prize in the category

"Overstatement of the Year"

Not that Prager will let anyone win that prize EVER.....

Many regulars of PDB had owned one at some points of their lives. All I have read so far is "very intelligent dog with EVEN temperament". Koots? Gigante?

What about the Hobo Dogs, Sunsilver?

Hans if Ex von Riedstren had a crooked tail and passes on to his progeny would that be a sign of temperament.

K9 (dogs) in general do not correlate coloration or markings with any type temperament, behavior or what ever.

That is a myth, you mention Jiri well those lines just happen to have a reverse mask.

As far as seeing a picture of a dog with a reverse mask and concluding about the temperament that is baloney.

Prager, during the years I read about Jiri Novotny whatever I was able to find ( impressive agenda! ), but why do you always say he "created" z Ps ?
The kennel was "created" in the mid fifties, J. Novotny started to work there at the end of 1979 ( 24 year later ), and started to direct (?) the kennel in October 1981, until he quit in 2001.
That said, he heavily "influenced" the breedings for 20 years ( that´s a very long time in breeding ), but he didn´t "create" z Ps in my understanding.

The close linebreeding on at least "Unkas" does not need to implement "defense, civil" or anything else. This dog was handled by a teenage girl, she started on the DJJM in 2004 and in 2005 ( almost no competitors ).
As far as I know SchH1 in 2004 ( not sure, either I am wrong or there is a fault within WinSis ), SchH2 in 2005, and he was handled on shows for teenage handlers 3 times.
I never saw this dog personally ( he was at the other end of my country, and a DJJM is an event you only join in case it´s in the neighbourhood, or someone well known is participating ), but "normally" a dog with this background isn´t "civil" or "too real" - just a guess, no proof !

I don´t believe in any correlation mask/temperament, like BW I think people see what they want to see, it´s easy to look back and find ONE ancestor out of thousands fitting the requirement. Maybe one day geneticists will find a correlation, by then I´ll be the first to apologize....

After all it´s not important, this dog is living now, Mithuna has to deal with it - I think it was a big fault to do "nothing" until now - a dog needs structure, a "difficult" dog ( no matter in which case ) even more.

I really hope you´ll find your way, at least the dog deserves it, and you clearly love her.

Math teacher BV without counting you mentioned that Ex occurs about 10 times and then you made your inference.
I stopped counting the occurence of Ex at 41 times and will soon do a complete count.

@ western : on one hand you claim to explain her prey drive by invoking " the desire to please the owner" , but on the other hand you claim obedience is lacking. If a dog has such a strong desire to please the owner ( as per your hypothesis) then this should also govern obedience. Please check the aesthetics of your reasoning before publishing as a "board expert"

"But I have told you that I do not give flying fk about colors. I DO NOT CARE. Capeesh? I leave that to people who  are ruining the breed by breeding for colors like show people."

"Swarnendu listen veeeeeery carefully. You must mistake me for someone who gives a damn about colors. Yet. I ASSURE YOU(!!!!) I do not give a damn about colors of the dogs, cars, cats, people, horses and so on. As Max v Stephanitz said. No good dog has bad color."

Now, who's this "Master Trainer" I'm quoting?!!

AMUSING will be an understatement !!!

 

So many are claiming to have known the probable reverse mask link ( bee/ Koots ) but no one is producing a quote where it was mentioned other than by Hans. When I searched the ped.... a lot of Lord and Ex came up. I have listed some of it a few posts above this one.        ~Mithuna

 

I am pretty sure Swarnendu took my clues and did a search. I am posting this link that includes the following statements and a video link of Lord doing bitework. I have relented and found them to post now, to provide some elucidation on who knew what, and when.

 

It's fairly rare to find videos this old on YouTube, and thought some of you might like to see it! He was an important sire in the old DDR lines. He also carried the recessive gene for the reverse face mask. Just about every time you see a current working line dog with the reverse mask, Lord will be somewhere in the pedigree!  

And speaking about her avatar dog... She was a stray my room mate picked up after someone dumped her in the streets of Scarborough. She lived to be 14 1/2. (Maybe she DID have Lord in her pedigree!) Although her conformation wasn't great, she had true GSD temperament, and was the only dog I've had so far that actually attacked someone who came on the property (a guy delivering flyers early one morning.) He was okay, as he was wearing a leather jacket, but I think he might have had to change his pants...  Unfortunately, she wasn't safe with kids, and sometimes took a dislike to adults, especially if they got right in her face on too short an aquaintance. She was also fiercely protective of our cars when she was inside them.

~Sunsilver
 

---

The reverse mask comes from a dog much farther back: Ex vom Riedstern  and probably even further back than Ex himself    

~aakay

---

Hunt drive  

~Gustav

Enjoy!

Bee thanks for the Lord link.i was told similar stuff by the trainer about Lord descendants. He said based on his experience in training and owning them...a huge fight kicks in at 21/2 to 3 yrs.