Any news on the Bartmess case? - Page 20

Ace,
Let's clear up a couple of things.  First, I do not breed or sell dogs to Law Enforcement or any one else.  I train dogs for a hobby and I do SchH, I train dogs for clients and I train Police dogs for my PD and assist with several others when asked.  I do not sell dogs, I have never sold dogs and I have never bred a litter.  That may change in the future but right now that is the case.  As MJ correctly pointed out I am a K-9 Officer, that is my oocupation. 

Secondly, if you have ever read anything I have posted you would know that I am against racism in any form.  I have been called out when I was on my PD's SIRT team to a KKK rally to provide crowd control and keep the peace.  I was there with about 400 other Police Officer's and the FBI.  No, we are not supporting the neo-nazi aholes, we are there to make sure it does not turn into a blood bath.  Actually, at those demonstrations the Neo nazi's hope the anti rally crowd becomes violent and the KKK members generally stay calm.  The KKK and neo nazi's benefit by the crowd turning on them and attacking them.  It was very difficult doing crowd control at that event because I found the KKK supporters to the lowest form of life on the planet.  It was hard for us to even look at those losers.  Keeping control, maintaining order and protecting life and property are a couple of the things cops do.  We were there to prevent a potentially violent riot.    

Hans,

JIM, no I would not sell her one of my dogs!! I would not let her into my house. I think that there is something wrong with person doing what she has done and I believe that she needs to be put away for long time.
I hope that she goes to prison and dies there for what she has done.

That has nothing to do with letting her or anybody to speak.


I disagree.  If you wouldn't let her own a dog of yours and you agree she should go to jail why would you let her pontificate on your forum?  I'm sorry, but I believe that her record shows she has nothing of value to offer anyone interested in GSD's.  Except maybe how long it takes to starve a dog to death and that is already documented at 32 days.  I guess we are very different because knowing who she is and what she has done to those beautiful animals makes me sick and furious.  I could never stand to see, hear or speak to her even if only on an internet forum.

JMO FWIW,

Jim

            






 

4pack,
we agree again.

Jim

I just talked to my Czech friend about this. She is 62 years old and escaped to this country when she was twentysomething. She told me that Janice's presence on a dog board would not be tolerated by any Czech person and said to tell Hans that he is confusing politics and perversion. Political free speech is one thing; what Janice has done should make her unwelcome on any dog board. Have her join a forum on flowers instead, and talk about something unrelated to her crimes.

Jim,

Thanks for clarifying that up as I thought you did and I apologize for the mistake.

As with your second point, to many of us, we see you being out there as a form of support of them.  Just like the person who gives them the permit to march as well as the officers out there protecting them.   Why not refuse to go out there?  We all have choices, so why not say then that your morals/ethics stop you from going out there?  If you are so against why not refuse to go and join the protestors on the opposite side.  Why not make a stand?

But to clarify your poiint your saying you out there b/c you are forced to be there and they not matter what they say and probably have done to people, they have the constitutional right to be there and say that stuff correct?

"As with your second point, to many of us, we see you being out there as a form of support of them."

Sorry to be blunt, but that is just plain stupid.
  "Just like the person who gives them the permit to march as well as the officers out there protecting them.   Why not refuse to go out there?"

Because both the permitting authority and the police officer have sworn oaths to defend the Constitution of the United States, which includes making sure that even the rights of racist shitheads like the neo-Nazis and KKK to freely assemble are not violated.  That is vastly different from Hans' private website forum, where he and he alone gets to call the shots and which is not in the least bit subject to the free speech requirements of the 1st Amendment.    

Ace you and I see things very differently.  I see Jim's job in the scenario described as keeping the peace, there is no  correlation whatsoever with a convicted GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG abuser who posts on a private forum. 

Now as long as we are entertaining hypotheticals I have one for you:  Since apparently the one over riding issue for you is letting people say what they want on the board as long as they don't cuss or make a personal attack, I guess this means you would be OK if say convicted child rapist and murderer Richard Allen Davis popped in just to say "hi I just love GSDs", right? 

Are these people just trying to be obtuse or do they really not get it?

4Pack, I really don't believe they're being obtuse, and while they *do* get why Janice Bartmess is so reviled, they *don't* get what it means to her to have an outlet for her thoughts and theories....THAT'S why they--Hans and Ace--keep insisting that this is about freedom of speech and allowing those with opposing ideas the opportunity to speak.

What Hans and Ace don't grasp is the complex psychological malfunction of Janice Bartmess, and the role that her finding someplace, which is currently Hans' forum, where people will LISTEN to what she's got to say plays in her sickness and subsequently her actions of neglecting and abusing the living beings in her care. They don't get that Janice Bartmess has an overwhelming NEED to have her existance validated by way of having other people eager to listen to what she has to say.  She *feeds* off of having people view her as the 'ultimate source' for DDR and other European-lineage GSD history in the US, and the more she's 'stroked' for sharing each little nugget of information, such as her posts in Hans' 'reverse masked dogs' thread on his forum, the more secure she becomes in her belief that everything she's ever done has been for the 'greater good' of the DDR GSD.

If Janice Bartmess were confined to a facility where she could never again have actual contact with dogs, it would be safe to discuss the subject with her in any forum or venue--because it wouldn't matter if she created apostles...they would not be able to place dogs in her hands again.  As it stands, it's unlikely she will spend much, if any, time incarcerated for what she's presently charged with, especially given the recent Supreme Court decision regarding CA's prison overcrowding situation.  Janice Bartmess will return to her home yet again, and if given access to a place where people will listen to what she's got to say will also yet again find ways to get her hands on more dogs, and the cycle will repeat. The ONLY chance she has of EVER breaking the cycle is for people to refuse to listen to anything she has to say about animals of any type--only when her knowledge is deemed of insignificant importance in the face of her heinous crimes will she stop viewing herself as the 'savior' of the DDR GSD.

And THAT'S what Hans and Ace don't get, 4Pack. They don't get that giving Janice Bartmess an outlet from which she can be heard is giving crack to the drug addict...it only serves to fuel the sickness further.

Hans, this is what concerns me....

Hex said.....

      "and if given access to a place where people will listen to what she's got to say will also yet again find ways to get her hands on more dogs, and the cycle will repeat." 


        She could easily take advantage of an unknowing person, as she speaks with knowledge as you have stated.. I pity the poor person ( GSD ) that she befriends on your forum ....It is the duty of us all to protect the innocent/vulnerable ...the innocent/valnerable GSD community that has not heard of this Janice Bartmess....Please reconsider...

        Deanna...: )

 

Hexe,

I've tried but I can't find the words to say what you just did. Thank you for explaining so well what some of us know.