passive decoy engagement test - Page 2

Well then I miss under stood the video

no prob, I thought the title on the clip itself should have said enough.

Yeah, but it does not explain WHY you want a dog who will attack
someone who does not present any threat ?
Say you were doing some security patrol work and you saw a trespasser,
if when stopped they offered no resistance, would it then be fine for the
dog to still go in and bite ? Sorry I just don't understand what you are
trying to prove with this particular exercise.

@vk4gsd - Correct me if I am wrong, but you are not training the dog to 'attack unprovoked', instead you are showing a clip of your progress and wanted to see if your dog had the character to engage without threat. You are at step x in a series of steps within your program.
Am I correct in my thinking??

Absolutely no offence, but to get a true reading re passive attack, You need to ditch the overt equipment. Not only is that a huge visual trigger for the dog, but it also reeks of previous training encounters which in turn will trigger the dog on an association level.

I personally see a LOT of value in working towards a controlled passive attack, as it does highlight the fact the dog will engage purely on it's handlers verbal command, as opposed to a dancing or static decoy wearing equipment.

To that avail I like to use a bare armed helper acting completely normal and have the dog in the muzzle. I also want to see some context to the training situation, in as much as the more relaxed and normal the situation is - the better and truer the reading will be.

The reason I use the muzzle, is to gauge the dog's intent when the verbal command is given, this allows me to use normal people who are not professional decoys, which in turn makes for a more realistic situation. (Hope that makes sense)

Here are a couple of my vids, with my stud dog Darkvakia Boris, the first one shows the dogs intent re passive attack and the second, which is not a passive attack, shows the dog engaging the non equipment wearing decoy, once again the dog is muzzled. (though not relevant to this discussion, it should alleviate any doubts that the dog would have engaged the female in the first vid - if he had not been tied back) The safety of any helper is always the most important priority for me, compounded massively when they are wearing absolutely no protective equipment..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdJywvAaw1g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n8ngGfpBxg

Gee very good post 👍 that were I was trying to to with my post. No equipment or it can't work. Thank s

Vk I ablosutly love your dog! It is sooooo cool  congrats

Yogidog, thank you.

Yes, the decoy wearing no equipment is the ultimate test, but of course Rome wasn't built in a day so lot's of little steps in the right direction is commendable.

VK - keep up the good work.

Regards
Gee

SO I get - in theory - what you guys are saying. If a passive decoy [ preferably
without an obvious (and stinky ) body suit on ] can be bitten 'on command' and
the dog proves he still has the 'nous' & the courage to go in, even though no one
is shaking a fist, a stick or a gun at him, then yes that is worth "knowing" for sure
- I guess... but Pete's video does not show much Command (he just gets pulled
round the corner by D who is all raring to bite). It also does not show an Out -
ok that isn't being 'trained for' at this time, but I would have thought it would have
been sensible to TEST for it. And my question remains unanswered - if this were
a real situation, ok he has a dog that he knows WILL bite someone not obviously
aggressive; but does he have any say in whether that happens ? Can he avoid
the dog deciding all by himself that he will bite, even if it really is not wanted and
the person gets badly hurt, and then turns out to have been a legitimate visitor
to the site, or something ?   BTW  the DOG may think he is being 'trained' at this

time !

Hundmutter - A passive attack is not about the dog choosing to bite a stationary stranger who poses no threat, that would just be a liability, which would result in the dog being put to sleep and hopefully the owner going to jail.

A passive attack is a demonstration of the dog reacting to it's handlers verbal command.
Say for instance someone made a death threat to you verbally in dulcet friendly tones whilst smiling.
The dog would not necessarily pick up on that threat, why would he, to him you are not being threatened. For me a passive attack simply demonstrates a bond/trust/total understanding between dog and handler.

I can't/won't speak for the author of the initial video, however I will say that controlled civil aggression
is for me a very worthy goal. A well balanced and sociable dog trained in controlled civil aggression in my opinion is worth it's weight in gold, I speak as an owner of such a dog.

R
Gee