AKC Champion vs Grand Champion??? - Page 2

It is much easier to get points in UKC shows. From what I was told and understand, a dog gets points just for being shown if he is not the only one in his class.  He has to beat at least one other dog in his class but does not have to win the class. Meaning if there are 3 dogs in a class and the second place dog gets points because he place ahead of the 3rd place dog..  AKC on the other hand, there is only one male and one female that gets points and that if he they show against the required number of dogs in that sex.  

Also, they are suposed to be judged against the standard, not each other. Hope this also helps. 

GSD Student, that was very close, 

One female and one male non Champions each for each breed can be awarded points at a show.

There are the WINNERS DOG and the WINNERS BITCH. They both compete against each other (or the Standard) for the "Best Of Winners".

I'm guessing what happens later in the "Best of Breed" Class ( Like how many Champions entered) determins any GRCH points.

Best of Opposite Sex is just the second place of the other sex to the Best of Breed Winner. So, if a male wins the BOB, then the best female is awarded BOS or the other way around.

If no points were awarded in breed because of few entries, then you can still get points should you win group or BIS ( Herding group and later Best In Show AKC for GSD) 

AKC Dogs are very popular, but AKC Dog Shows are less so. Some people send dogs with handlers who travel to clusters of shows where they can get points on these dogs. Others can load up vans with great numbers of their own dogs to serve as "Fillers" to get the points. Some are lucky and can get a Champion in one week/end with 3 shows and 3 five-point majors, others can compete their entire life and get Reserve Winners every time and never become a Champion or get any points even if they defeated hundreds of other dogs at shows. It is a one winner take all system.

AKC trials are much more like other trials and certain mistakes cost a dog in points or may have it fail a trial completely, but how many dogs were entered does not decide if a dog gets the working title the way it decides if AKC conformation points are awarded or not.

I sort of like the SV system myself and the surveys where at least the judges offer advice on all the dogs for all the people involved in the breed to learn from. At AKC they just point a finger at the winner, add points up, end of story. The GSDCA shows do sometimes have critiques.

GSDStudent & Blitzen,
I've seen the GRCH on the GSDs now a lot. I think Dawulf explained it. I did not used to see them at all. It looks like the same dogs are flying all over the USA, going to all the events to get to be number 1 in the nation?

GSDStudent Said:
AKC events award points to dogs who go Best of breed and best of opposite sex when; 1 ] a minimum number of dogs are shown [ different for each breed and is determined by the amount of individual dogs  being shown, hence the more popular the breed the more dogs must be shown to acheive points]   2 ]  Shows award to the breed winners from 1 point to five points, again depending on how many dogs are at that event. 3] to become a Champion a dog must receive 15 points with at least 6 points being from a ''major show''. 4 ] a magor show is 3,4, or 5 points again depending on the amount of dogs shown. You will not be a Champion of record with 15 wins of 1 points. 5] I believe a grand Champion is a APBT thingy and has nothing to do with the GSD

It looks like the same dogs are flying all over the USA, going to all the events to get to be number 1 in the nation?

This is the same as it has always been.  For dogs to become grand champions, they must already be finished (AKC Champions) and the judge must choose to award them "select" points.  The dogs must accumulate 25 total points with three major wins as well as defeat a certain amount of other specials (finished animals) to achieve the first level of a GCH

Thanks for explaning that Xeph, but, I've been going through a gazzillion records and NEVER had I seen this GRCH title on the front of a German Shepherd Dog's name until lately. NEVER. And, it is in Fact on the names now as an Official AKC title or record.
So, when did this start? For example, what famous dogs from the 1950s/60s/70s/80s/90s/00s was a GRCH? Finnegan? Hatter? Ulk?

Xeph Said: This is the same as it has always been.

Hutchins, you need points AND wins for a CH in UKC.  You can accumulate points for being best in the class, best male, best of winners, etc without earning actual wins, since a win means there is competition at a certain level (not just winning your class or "winning" because you're the only dog at that level).  You do not ever get anything in breed (no points) for placing second even if there are dogs behind you.  You need to win at a certain level (Best Male or Female I believe, not just winning the class) and beat enough dogs to earn a CH.

Blitzen could you qualify your statement that SV handlers charge more than AKC handlers? It has been my impression that it is the other way around.

AKC pro handlers generally charge $70 to $80 per show, some less. The SV handlers I know charge the price of the class entry. An entry at NASS can go up to $125 for the working dog with title class. Puppy classes $85 or more.  There are always extra charges depending on the show, the handler, who grooms, etc.. Either way it's not a cheap sport for anyone.

VKGSD, if I got this wrong, I am sorry. This was explained to me several years ago by someone who was and is still showing in UKC.  I clearly remember her telling me that as long as I showed up, I didn't have to win my class but placed ahead of another dog in my class I would get, to be specific, 15pts.  She even told me that was the way she got most of the "easy points" on her dogs, by entering more than one of her dogs in the same class. Now I realize she may have been trying to get me to show as I was planning on getting one of her dogs and required he be shown in UKC to acquire his Championship.  Some breeders will say anything to potential buyers to make a sale. 

 I think what it all boils down to, is it is ALOT easier to get an UKC CH than get an AKC CH.  Seriously when you see a kennel that shows only in UKC and they own 20-30 dogs and most of them are UKC CH. and knowing the person is not the wealthy its pretty obvious when compared to AKC CH titles how easy UKC is to acquire. And yes I do believe that UKC appears to make showing more fun than serious than what AKC does. UKC draws more people to showing. It also separates the intentions of both breeders and owners. 

Personally I don't care what what venue people and breeder go with their fur babies, as long as they do something to utilize what the breed was developed to do. However I do not agree with the breeder(s) that get these relatively cheap easy titles to use as a selling tool and to jack up prices of their puppies, and do NOTHING else to prove the breeds value. JMO

Why do you American's always want to do things differently, lol.  Here in south africa and i'm pretty sure all over the the world  we have local shows in dfiferent provinces/states. You accumulate point's which help you when we have our national show. At our national show the top kennels dogs that performed well at the local shows gets recognised eg bronze medal , silver , gold medal and platinum memeber breeder.

Simple and less of a conundrum

From the AKC.ORG website:

The American Kennel Club® is pleased to announce that it will begin offering the Grand Champion title at AKC Conformation events. This new title will be available to AKC Champions of Record, giving the opportunity for Champion dog owners to return to the show ring with their dogs and further showcase the quality of their breeding stock. Competition for this new title will begin at AKC all-breed, group and specialty shows on May 12, 2010, concurrent with the implementation of the 2010-2011 AKC Point Schedule.