Dual training a dog questions - Page 2

Thank you all for your responses.  This is why I asked I knew I would get many vaired thoughts with excellent points and counter points and I appreciate the time each of you have took to give your opinions.  If you guys dont mind I have a couple follow up questions

Can a service dog and a ScH/PP dog coexist in the same household if we do go the two dog route?

Would the SCH/PP dog feel the need to protect the child from the SD so to speak?

Reason I ask is I have always planned for my "working dog" to also roam the house freely with my family. My current GSD does It is a family pet as well so to speak. 


As far as training we would be required to go twice a week (whole family) with my daughter getting the most work as far as the service dog goes. My wife and I have already discussed if we go with a single or double dog situation the kids wont know any of the pretoection commands except a "stop" type command and a "release" command.  The Kennel/training center is interesting in that they have tons of dogs (they do all the dogs for the local VA)  Anyway during class they bring out these dogs and each person in the family works with a dog so everyone is learning how to train and handle a dog whcih I thought was interesting.  We are going to an outside trainer because I am not a trainer and am smart enough to know me taking my dog to SCH class once a week in no way shape or form makes me qualified to train a service dog.  This trainer even has a pass at the airport that allows him to go through airport security and to the gates etc to get service dogs trained/used to airports etc.  He is certified through the county school system to train dogs in class etc and does in classroom training with the child (in this case my daughter) to fisnish up/polish the dog

While we was there once with my daughter he brought out a protection trained rotty who he sent on his receptionist and stopped it a couple feet short.  dog returned wagging it's tail had my daughter walk over and then the dog helped her walk, she fell he gave a command for the dog to go down and brace etc to help her get back up.  Was amazing for me to watch that change of pace in 30 seconds.  The dog it turns out was being trained in protection work as well for a vet who had lost both legs but was using prosthetics.

 

 

GSDNEWBIE

I now also have a 6 year old handicapped daughter.  Family situtations change.  My brother and his wife died in a car accident and I know have their child.  Breeding is not my cup of tea so to speak.  I had planned to have they dog spayed when I got her but the breeder asked me to wait two years to make that decision.  More than likely I will not be breeding her.  You are right I have no training in training a service dog.  Part of the package the trainer offers is if he trains your dog you get training sessions with them for free for the life of the dog (they do say it would be nice if you give a $5-10 donnation each extra lesson for their program to train dogs for the VA/wounded warriors program).  We would be taking the dog once or twice a month after she is done.  They also will add in anything else the dog would need for my daughter for the life of the dog in the inital fee. 

My want for a SCH dog was purely for the competition but I wanted a dog that could also be around kids and a family pet.  As my family situation has changed so has what I am looking for.  I want a service dog for my daughter.  I want a dog I can work with on the weekends.  I also want to make sure if my wife and kids go out there is a level of protection there (protection dog) because with a handicapped child I feel my wife would become more of a target for something to happen in a mall parking lot or walmart parking lot etc.  My thought was after talking to this trainer we may be able to wrap them all up in one.  My fear is as someone mentioned having my daughter with a bite trained dog in a classroom.  My wife and I have worked hard for what we have and dont want to lose it in a lawsuit for a bite.  That is why I asked for opinions

A personal protection dog and a schutzhund dog are two different things. That is all I have left to remark to this situation.

Why wouldn't a working dog be allowed loose in house with family....it occurs in thousands of households.

For some reason many here in America think if the dog is a protection dog it must bark with canines flashing,silava flinging and will not be trustworthy around people and you have to lock it away to avoid it accidental biting and do not realise how can a dog protect if it is not stable enough to be out when there are people around. I have had years if trying to drive home to people that dogs trained to behave as described are not protection dogs and a protection dog cannot protect if locked in kennel or on a chain. Many think they need " a protection dog" for all the wrong reasons and think a trained dog is going to auto obey anyone that has a list of commands for it and they they do not need to know anything about the training to keep and work said bought training/dog. Easy pickings for "dog trainers" that promise the moon with little work on their part as an owner and future handler of said protection dog. Perfect homes to sell an obedient trained pet to and show them dog on sleeve and tell them the dog is a "protection" dog. Sorry for the rant..... I had tried to keep from it but I lost.

"For some reason many here in America think if the dog is a protection dog it must bark with canines flashing,silava flinging and will not be trustworthy around people and you have to lock it away to avoid it accidental biting and do not realise how can a dog protect if it is not stable enough to be out when there are people around. I have had years if trying to drive home to people that dogs trained to behave as described are not protection dogs and a protection dog cannot protect if locked in kennel or on a chain. Many think they need " a protection dog" for all the wrong reasons and think a trained dog is going to auto obey anyone that has a list of commands for it and they they do not need to know anything about the training to keep and work said bought training/dog. Easy pickings for "dog trainers" that promise the moon with little work on their part as an owner and future handler of said protection dog. Perfect homes to sell an obedient trained pet to and show them dog on sleeve and tell them the dog is a "protection" dog. Sorry for the rant..... I had tried to keep from it but I lost."

First off your rant does not offend me.  Second of all as I have said in this thread and other threads I want my dog to be free in the house with my family etc not in a kennel.  That was the point in asking above if they could coexist with a service dog as one would be helping quite a bit and the other would be there to protect and the protection dog may see a fall and assume it needs to protect.  That being said if my wife and I are the ones at training with the dog each week when it gets to the protection phase I would make the logical assumption that the dog also would listen to her as well in that type situation if the dog has good temperment and has been trained well. 


Now as far as there being a difference between SCH and PP of course there is.  There are dogs that can do both some that will do PP but not SCH and some that will do SCH but not PP.  I know of a couple SCH dogs that will not hit someone unless they have a sleeve.  They look for one then when there is not one they dont know what to do.

Thanks for the time you have put into this thread and any additioanl thoughts you may have

I was replying to Gustav's post not yours, sorry for the confusion.

To the OP, my question to you is how much training in hours do you think is good to spend working not just spending time with a dog trained for potection a week? Same question for time spent each week training and refining a schutzhund dog and also for a service dog same question. 

My guess would be about 5 hrs a week for each or an hour a day.  I work from home so time is not a problem for me

That is a good start. No one can say two dogs are going to get along just from being male or female combos or because of what training they have. Most multiple dog situations that work well are because they have good training, strong handler and because the dogs are a mesh. I have three german shepherds and they are loose when I am home. I never allow my dogs to be loose with each other when I am not home as you never know just when something will trigger a fight. If one does not die before you get home it is very difficult to get them back to nicey nicey with each other once that gaunlet has been thrown down to each other.