Need some feedback? - Page 2

Sorry I couldn't answer, we were in holiday and then our computer crashed an so on....now I'm back ;)

I wanted a sports dog right, for Tracking, Obedience and Bitework. @Susie: We just have three SV Groups here and two from the HSV (Dog Sport Club) and they were even worse. I mean it's not everbody who hates her. And I really mean hate. A man told me, that I should shoot her, because she's longhaired and not from the SV. A woman said, that she had a longhaired too, but put him into sleep, because he wasn't that hard at bitework. These are not my friends. At the Group we train, are three other longhaired and not everybody thinks, she can't work.She does really well and a lot of people said that to me. But many people told me, that she's a longhaired and can't work and because I'm using no Prong-Collar she will never complete even the BH. I think that's absoluty wrong, she works with a smile on her face and loves to work. I'm so happy with her.

First we were in another group, but evertime we trained there the woman who watched us training told me, that she's a longhaired and will never be that good than the shortcoated.

@seeofred: She's now sixteen months and 29kg...she's very slim, but not too much. I like her weigh the way it is, she's full of muscles.... ;))

Greetz

i like the long coat sables they look funky. a breeder up here has some amazing long coat sables but Very dark sables

This guy from my last litter i believe is going to be a long coat he had twice the length of hair as the rest of the litter. he could just be plushy but he has some relly long hair and toe hair

Debisue, excellent critique. I do not feel very confident evaluating a long coated GSD's various structure elements, I get lost on some of the minute details; withers, shoulder lay, front upper arm & croup beat me.
Nice looking dog and beautiful color.

Ibrahim

Its often the way that long coats have a better structure underneath than
stock coats.  OPs youngster isn't the best constructed dog I've ever seen
- subject to the limits of seeing one static photo - but she certainly isn't
the worst either IMO.
I don't much 'like' long coats myself, from two angles:
1  They are a bit of a pain to groom, that may not be such a problem if
you only have one;  its a major chore when you have several around.
2   If they have a very long coat and little undercoat, grooming isn't the
only problem, they are really not weatherproof.  Fortunately most of the
long coats around are langstockhaar, i.e. just a BIT long, and they do
have some undercoat around most of the body, so they are nearly as
impervious to rain and snow as standard coats.
Having said all that, I can still appreciate that these dogs are actually
rather pretty to look at, and understand Jo Public's obsession with
them.

@Hundmutter: I only know longhaired shepherds with undercoat. I never seen one without.

We were on a few shows this year (not SV; DASV. site is only in german). She made a V2 on the first, the second was a V1 and the third a V3..... I was very, very happy.

The only thing I noticed is that her front feet are turned outside (hope you understand??). And that she didn't like the last judge ;))) Comes after her father...bright little girl, is a wonderful male ;))))

Greetz

LonghairedGSD, I too have a long coat.  He's 6 years old now.  I started showing him in conformation when he was just about a year old.  I showed him here in the US, in the UKC.  United Kennel Club.  They accept the (long coat) as long as it's not too long.  Yours looks just fine.  Chaos, my long coat is a retired Grand Champion now and also took Best Of Breed over 19 other German Shepherd Dogs at the biggest UKC show in the US.  Everybody from every state comes to this show each year.  That was Chaos's biggest win of his career and I pretty much retired him after that.  He had done all he could do : - )  He's now a very happy farm dog full time and loving every minute of it.  Good luck with your GSD and showing, I know you'll do well. 

P.S.  Watch the front paws when stacking.  Looks a little easty, westy like Chaos was.  Make sure you place them one at a time and point them forward : - )

Just took a quick look at DASV - they are neither member of VDH nor FCi ?!???

The dogs are called "OLD" German Shepherds ?!?
Do they print their own fancy pedigrees?
Didn´t find any breeding regulations besides HD/ED and - how funny - the SV standard.
Neither found "stud dogs" with any Schutzhund titles...
What does a dog need to achieve a breed survey/Körung in this "club" ?

Sorry, but I don´t like this kind of "club"... sounds like breeding longcoated pets...

@Shepherd Woman: Thanks for the advice.

@Susie:
No, they are no member of the VDH or FCI, because the club was founded before the longhaired GSD was standard.
I can tell you, that all of the dogs are HD free or HD Almost normal, as you can tell from the stud dogs site.Same with the breeding females.
You're right, not every stud dog has a Schutzhund titles. They just don't list it.

The dog needs two shows with V/SG/G and needs to pass a charakter test during the survery.

But we are not members in this club, because they changed their aims. They want to have nice, lovely shepherds and go more for showing. I'm not a big fan of conformation shows, but I have to. IMO Shepherds are sport dogs. Of course they need to pass a title before they get the right to breed.
But I don't want to go to the SV, because when I see, how they are working their dogs and tell me, that the first ten of the BSP have E-Collars (which are illegal in Germany) and in a club where it's all about the money (maybe not everyone, I don't want to speak to the people, who don't do it, but there are enough, who do).... I am in the SV, but just to make the Schutzhund Titles and that I can train in a SV Group. We now found a good group to train with.
But when I look at those dogs with prong collars and totaly nervous and (how I can see this) NOT for the people who want just a dog, that goes on walks.
I hear the voices who say, well then they shouldn't buy a shepherd..but look at the buyers today. Who are they? People who want to go on the BSP, WUSV or just the German Championship? People who want their dogs on the first places on Shows and a VA1 on the BSZS? Or just "normal" people who want a dog to play and walk with?
A German Shepherd should do all of it. He should can work, can be showed....but first of all it's a companion dog, who likes to work and to play. Doesn't matter what kind of work it is.

That's my opinion and the breeders today should not focus an high rated Showdogs, who just can run in the ring or so high drives they getting so damn nervous and hard to handle. On a sportive, active companion dog, who will work for you every time you ask him, but quits and sleeps, when not.

Just a dog. Not a winner or champion.

Greetz

I´m no friend of breeding without titles or pedigrees, never will be.

The German Shepherd is a working dog. People who want a companion dog do have the choice out of 100s of breeds, but they shouldn´t buy a working breed like German Shepherd, Malinois, Dobermann, Rottweiler, and so on... (including hunt dogs and sled dogs).
Either people are able to give these dogs something useful to do or they shouldn´t buy this kind of dog.
The breeders don´t need to change the characters of their dogs, the pet people should stay away from them.
There is no reason to breed a calm, friendly, submissive German Shepherd, and there is no reason for pet owners to buy one, only because they like their outlook.

Glad to hear that you are going to title your female, although I´m strictly against breeding her. There are enough dogs out there WITH pedigrees and known ancestors, there is absolutely no need to breed mutts.

@susie: I mean, maybe we get now in a really big discussion....but why do you call her a mutt? She has a pedigree (ok from a club not from the vdh or fci) and she has some SV Shepherds in it (Esko Gräfental/Britt Grauen Monstab/Cliff Geraufer). Just because she is not in the SV? She has (imo) beautiful parents, HD & ED free, a V rated Showing and they are both working (father Schutzhund, mother mantrailer) and they do both great. Her mother was with ten months ready for the exam to become a rescue dog.

I will not breed in the SV, because I'm against the rules of this club. I don't like how they show their dogs, with that stand...I just don't like how they treat their dogs, when I see the prong collars. I mean, I don't see a reason for the dogs standing like this. To get them looking all the same? So it's easier for the judge to evaluate them? Why are they not allowed to stand normal, like dogs stand? They don't have to stand like they are fell asleep in a second, but why do they have to get their backs down? Don't tell me it was always like that.

What I also don't understand....why do they don't like the White Sheps? Because they are different? Now they are, that's right, but the grandfather from Horand was white`....they should love these dogs, because one of them produced the fahter of the founder of the breed...but that's another theme.

And yes the German Shepherd Dog IS a working dog and it should work. BUT today buyers, also them who don't buy them just because of the outlooking.... they don't have to be calm, but I think they HAVE to be friendly in our world today. A breeder ties his dogs up, when he goes to the supermarket. And he says, when someone comes and touches the dogs, it's not clear of his little female will not bite them. This can't be a breeding aim, a dog who bites strangers, when they do not want any bad for them. Of course he don't have to touch the dogs, but they don't have to bite people who are not aggressive towards them. Another man had to give his dog away, because when training with prong collar the dog bit him. This can't be a breeding aim too.
You're right, the Shepherd has no need to be calm and submissive, but this is also an extreme that in my opinion, can't be tolerated.
Everyone starts with the first shepherd and when they get to breeder with the aim to breed hard, aggressive and outgoing dogs and then they get one like this....the dog lands in the shelter and everyone calls him the big bad shepherd.

When working, the Shepherd can be as dominant and hard as he wants to be. But when not working, he HAS to be friendly and nice to everyone, without told so. I want a dog with instincts, who knows when someone wants something bad for his owner or for himself. Then he can be aggressive still, though it isn't allowed in Germany that your dog protects you. Then he is an "aggressive dog" and maybe gets put into sleep.
So why breed dogs just for the training field? There is a life, which does not take place on that field. And then?

Yes it is a working dog and it should stay a working dog. The Shep has no need to be only a pet. But I know many shepherds who can't make that difference. And the world is not the same than it was twenty years ago. Today a dog has another tasks then twenty years ago. And so should the aims be. A working dog, but it should can get handled from a first time handler and should not get aggressive, when just thinks a person isn't nice to him.

Greetz