Bitework Question: How should trainer progress. - Page 15

Nice looking dog .

Is there are pedigree on this dog? 

I see certain signs on the pictures whichI would like to confirm. 

Yes she has a pedigree but just curious
, what are those signs in the pic?

I see reversed mask which usually indicates dog named Ex v Riedstern in the past parts of pedigree. (1966) .http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=5548-ex-vom-riedstern

If that is the case that would explain a lot. That dog was type 1 dog - and paste  it down the line quite routinely  to his  progeny. That gene was so dominant that we can still clearly see it in some dogs. I suspect from the picture your dog may be  his descendant.  Another example  of such dog is famous and legendary Lord von Gleisdreieck who has reversed mask too and he too was type 1 dog - quite bad ass.  

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=5427-lord-vom-gleisdreieck

There are many such dogs and if you go back in their pedigree you will almost invariably find Ex v Riedstern . 

 IMO  these dogs are one of the  last consistent bastions of  real dogs which  strong natural instincts which people who want such dog should know about and try to preserve it. 

Good insight Prager.  You are  highly likely to be correct . You have earned my respect  by helping to understand that a lot of her aggression  has a genetic origin . I kind of got tired of seeing dogs in her ped line bred on Ex. She is heavily back massed on Lord 6,6,7,7-6, 7,7 and Zorro v Laagerwall 6,6,7- 6,7,7. ( Zorro is 4,5-4  on Ex Riedstern ). Zorro was known for his extreme aggression and was considered anti social .Some other strong dogs who are in her pedigree  ( some of whom were in the LGA, BSP, and a WUSV qualifier ) include : Gunda v Schieferschloss ( 7-6,7,7,7 ) ( Gunda is 4,5,5-5 on Ex Riedstern ) ,Alf V Kornersee ( 6,7-6,6,6,7 ) ( Alf is 4-4,5 on Ex  Riedstern ) , Bessy v Kaolinsee ( 6-6, 7 ) ( Bessy is 3-4 on Ex Riedstern ) , Bera Haus Christian (4-5 ) ( Bera is 5,5 -5 on Ex Reidstern ) , Birko vd Wolfeshohle( 7-7 ) ( Birko is 4,5,5-5 on Ex Reidstern ), Bianka v Althuttendorfer land ( 7-7 ) ( Bianka is 3,4-4,5 on Ex Reidstern ),  ( Falko vd Buschecke ( 6-7 ) ( falko is 4,5-5,5,5, on Ex Reidstern ), Fanta v Haus Kathleen ( 6-7 ) ( Fanta is 5-4 on Ex Reidstern and 4-4 on Frei Barutherland ), Duran Weidegang ( 4-5 ) ( Duran is 5,5-4 on Ingo Rudigen ), Frenzi vd Knappenmuhle ( 5-6 )( Frenzi is 5-5 on Bernd Lieberg ) ,Gotz Haus Himpel 6-7, Irko V Peri Hof ( 5,6-6)( Irko is a Lord son ) , Maxi Perihof ( 4,5-5 )( Maxi is 4-5 on Ingo Rudigen ), Grief Perihof ( 5,6-6 ) ( Grief is a Lord son ) , Gabi vd Wassermuhle ( 6-5,6,6,6,7 ) ( Gabi is 3-3 on Golf Ritterberg and 4-4   on  Ingo Rudigen ) Odett mardeklause  (5,6-6  ) ( odett is 5,5-5,5 0n Bernd Lieberg ), Brando Mardeklause ( 4,5-5 ) ( Brando is a Lord Grandson ) Tino Fenschelschloss (4-5) ( Tino is 4-5 on Ingo Rudigen ) , Golf Ritterberg (7-7), Condor Haus Christian (3-4 ). Her ped seem to be pretty much loaded with dogs who were well known for high levels of aggression.

The current trainer who has known her more than a year said that her behavior profile is typical of Lord's descendants ( of which he has owned at least  3 ); he said they show aggression from very early which is often interpreted as insecurity by those not fmiliar with the line. then between about 21/2 to 3 years they explode and bring a serious fight with the aggression.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not saying it's the case for the particular WUSV helper in this discussion, Bavarian Wagon, BUT--

Just because someone is an outstanding helper does NOT automatically make them an outstanding, or even a good, trainer. And just because someone is a great or good trainer doesn't mean they're equally proficient as a teacher of novices. Hell, just because someone is an world-level trial helper doesn't mean they're a good teaching helper for novice helpers--teaching is a skill separate and apart from the skill being taught.

Prager
She is also (7,7-7 ) on Jeff Flaming Sands who is 3,4-4, 5 on Ex Reidstern.
Artus vd Westendhohe ( 7,7-7 ) who is 3-4,5 on Ex Reidstern. And with so much back massing on Lord who in turn is  4,5,5,-5 on Ex Reidstern.

Im tired of seeing Ex Reidstern.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's AMAZING to note that so many knowledgeable dog people including the admins didn't bother to have a look at this particular dog's pedigree till now, and passed their final judgments on the OWNER, the DOG, and even the TRAINER, when the query was how should the trainer PROGRESS !!

It's also AMAZING to note that so many knowledgeable dog people have never raced with their dogs !!

There is nothing amazing about this... He never offered up the ped to be part of an open discussion until now, umpteen pages later. How he got his hands on this type of dog for a novice would be a good read, too. This is typical of Mithuna and is known as the "gotcha" moment.

I noticed the reverse mask, too, as I am sure, so did many others and when Prager brought it up, I knew what direction he would be going, if not the particulars. (I am not a ped expert, nor ever claim to be one.) I just have heard the reverse mask discussion about a dozen times.

Now the only thing left to do is compliment Mithuna with his perfect dog, trainer, loving couple, townhouse, stairs, city, vet and life.

Have a great day!