the problem with america today - Page 12

I think it is a 2 way street Bee when it comes to snubbery attempts on each other.

beetree said, "Critical Theory was essentially destructive criticism of the main elements of Western culture, including Christianity, capitalism, authority, the family, patriarchy, hierarchy, morality, tradition, sexual restraint, loyalty, patriotism, nationalism, heredity, ethnocentrism, convention and conservatism."

Those are not traditional Western values. They are elements that existed in individual western cultures at various times but they would not make up a list that refers to the West as a whole. That list is quite terrible and an obvious attempt at revisionist history by someone who I would describe as an evangelical right-winger. Those are the values of Christian fundamentalists. A group that stands for the opposite of Western values and has, for centuries, consistently stood in the way of the liberal values that define Western culture today.

Joan mentioned how Western values differ from Middle Eastern. That list doesn't demonstrate that much of a difference. Replace Christianity with Islam and most of those apply to the ME as well. That list could also pass for something written by Hitler or Mussolini.

So what makes Western values different from the Middle East? Like I said, LIBERALISM. Isn't that what they supposedly hate us for? The Middle East had no Renaissance. It had no Enlightenment. Unlike the West it didn't embrace Greek learning but rejected it as the work of pagans. The bedrock of Western culture is the ancient Greeks and Romans, pagan peoples not Christians. In fact, Plato and Aristotle even had an influence on how Christianity developed. Democracy was a pagan invention, not a Judaeo-Christian one. Interestingly that list omits democracy and republicanism.

So when talking about Western culture we are primarily talking about the value placed on the individual. We are talking about humanism. Western culture implies something shared by the West. Up until the Middle Ages and the dawn of the Renaissance, there was no Western culture. The culture of the ancient Germans was not like the ancient Romans, for example. It wasn't until the Renaissance, which started in Italy and spread throughout Europe, that something that could be described as Western culture began to emerge. You see this manifested in the arts and philosophy. This spread of humanism would eventually lead to the end of feudalism and monarchies and the rise of republican governments and their liberal values. And it all has it roots in Greece and pagans.

beetree asked, "I think it is remarkable that you claim the Liberal views as the defenders of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, when I know of people who are decidedly Christian conservative thinkers who would make that same claim. How can you both be correct?"

They would be wrong if they claim that the Constitution and Bill of Rights are rooted in Christian belief. Individual rights is a topic that doesn't exist in the Bible.

I get what people mean by PC culture and cultural Marxism. Two problems:

1. It has nothing to with liberalism.
2. The right can be accused of the same things. They just came out and labeled it Marxist in order to deflect from their attempts at destroying Western culture.

For you, none of it matters....you've succumbed to the brainwashing.

Pot meet kettle.

@GSD Admin, perhaps you are correct, but it is not me who draws first blood. Matter of fact, my name should just not be brought up at all.

@Noitsyou. I am not focused on the definition of the liberalism label as much as the harm and deliberate alienation being done that the PC tactic grows against, what I guess you would call, Christian values. I think you did a nice swicheroo, too, of whom is supposedly seeking to destroy the values of the founders of the Constitution.

It should be possible for everyone to find some common values besides, and coinciding perhaps with humanist ones.

Here is your pot meeting your kettle;

Clinton Cash: Khizr Khan’s Deep Legal, Financial Connections to Saudi Arabia, Hillary’s Clinton Foundation Tie Terror, Immigration, Email Scandals Together

lol, and you believe Trump to be cleaner? I mean seriously. I don't like either candidate but if I have a choice between a right out front racist and anyone else, including Hillary, I am taking Hillary all day long. I could waste my vote on an independent but that may mean Trump gets in. So, while my first choice is probably Stein. I do think we can do worse than Hillary, look at ding bat Palin, an extremist Christian and/or superman Donald Trump. Enough said.

Clinton is the most corrupt person to ever run for potus....watch Clinton Cash, its free on YouTube, look what she and her criminal husband did to the Hatians after the earthquake. Look what they did in sumalia and the Congo...look how she got Americans killed in Benghazi to cover up the weapons she was selling Isis in Syria.... Yes she is millions, no, Billions and likely Trillions worse than trump or any other human being in the USA.

 

Trump is the only one who has a chance to beat that filthy bitch at the polls so I will vote for him...she MUST NOT become president of the United States, because if she does, our country is lost and will become nothing but a cesspool for the overflow from every third world country and we will cease to be a country at all....just a hunk of real estate to contain the slaves of the elites of the NWO.

This election is America vs Anti-America...hilery and the democrats are as anti-american as n korea....

Christian values, political conservatism and right-wing politics are all separate. You can be Christian and not be conservative or right-wing. You can be conservative and not be a Christian or right-wing. You can be right-wing and not be conservative or Christian.

PC tactics are not exclusive to the left.

The founders were liberals. People just have to accept it, or not, but it's true. Liberalism is between the right and the left. Liberals can't destroy the values of the Constitution since they are their values but, those on the right and left are the ones who can, and do.

People who believe the right is the side that defends the Constitution are simply ignorant of history and the true definition of right-wing. The left and right both believe in the use of government to control and limit our freedoms.

PC attacks on Christian values? You mean things like compassion, giving to the poor, pacifism, loving your neighbor and enemy, tolerance? The leftist PC crowd is against those values? Hmmm, which side is actually against those values?

The real PC attacks from the left are on, now get this, liberal values. And this makes it no different than the right. Listen to Trump's rhetoric. It isn't conservative, it's right-wing. This is why some republicans have a problem with him. They want to see themselves as conservatives and recognize that Trump does not share their conservative values. He wants to limit and restrict our freedoms. He wants to expand government.

Now, someone will say, "but I can't say 'merry Christmas' anymore because of this PC nonsense," and say it's an example of an attack on Christian values. That is wrong. It is an attack on liberal values.

As far as Clinton's connection to Saudi Arabia, where were all of these people when GWB was holding hands with and kissing a Saudi Prince on the mouth? Where were they when Trump got a bailout from the Saudis?