Schutzhund and only schutzhund? - Page 12

Myret, I think you missed what I wrote a few posts ago because you typed at the same time, but if you read that most of what you says make no sense. OK, so you like a very sporty dog best, for others such dog are mediocre and nothing impressive. Here is a PSD in finland, also SCH-titled, his father was a danish stud used some in sweden, you probably think he is mediocre because he is not as frantic and flashy as the sporty type, yet he is probably a better PSD than many of the softer sport type of dogs, not so uncommon for french ring malinois;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRE-TrGamFo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObQoH3ocrkQ&feature=related

darylehret


I used Max in my statement because eisenhaus wrote that if I had Max vom tiekerhook I get to the hospital I guess his statement is that if I had a dog like this I would get bitten

johann77

I have never said that I did not like a sport dog, I wrote that the gsd has changed due to the schh sport and the days sport dog lack the fight and drive as the older lines had .


prey dog does not mean weak or lack of courage


Denmark has not used the same dogs as Koos because one thing danish like very social dogs , they dont like social aggression like Koos does and dont prefer social aggreession

Nick vom heilengenbøsh has not been used in Denmark and if not very much  not many dogs in Denmark has Nick in their pedigree like Koos liked him alot thats one


Opal has been used only a few  times
Max has never been used here

Jim vom sastalhøhe has not been used here either



the danish like Tom vant leefdahlhof and his sons like Eros and Ellute so they have been used alot and this other boring dog Rosso he has been used alot to and Kimbo vom Karthago

so its not true that the danish is using the same lines as Tiekerhook kennel that is very few breedings


Johann77


I get the point, well Im not impressed by a dog with a schh 3 or if he has won the WUSV .

seems to me that you all in here cant take criticism of the gsd and if you think the gsd is all that then tell me why many prefer the mal as a more alround dog than the gsd????? without getting personal.

and why has many police departments wordlwide use the mals instead if it is the best working dog ??????? that can do any sport or real life thing as good as a mal?????  dont tell me its because the mals are cheeper because that is not the only reason



what does experience has to with taste or what you like in 30 years my opnion has not changed at all even if I had a 30+ experience with the breed.

and why mals are better at almost any sport compared to the gsd???

the gsd cant even pass a test in Denmark to be a rescue dog or SAR, many dont pass, or what you call it , we see more terriers that pass the test than gsd .because again they cant work for longer times without loosing drive and focus , they cant work under exstrem heat as required as a rescue dog  they have difficulty working in a ruin . very few pass the requirements it takes

many gsd cant make it to be a SAR in Denmark and I quote what they have been seen the later years

Johann77

I could care less if they do good in schh almost every breed can do schh, so it does not take a good dog to comepete in schh Im not impressed like I wrote a mediocre dog can do schh even a shitty dog if the handler is good the dog can pass a schh 3 with good points
there are some good danish dogs but I dont the the lines they use very much dont like Kimbo,Rosso, or Eros and Ellute they are normal dogs nothing special that are the lines they have used alot

 

whar I do for a living has nothing to do with prey dogs

prey dogs are easier to work with because they are easily motivated and are easy to get going and can work for a longer time due to the exstreme prey that they hope to get a reward like a toy or something.

prey is not the only thing Im looking at as I  have written all the time good solid nerve, hardness (not handler aggression) able to handle correction wothout loosing drive, the ability to work for a long time without loosing focus and drive,courage.

many gsd owners use alot of time especially their first years playing with the dogs prey drive to build it up, but it should be there naturely


a prey dog may not be suspicius naturally but they can learn to protect you with training I my self have a prey dog and a dog male that is not that social he  has much social aggresion and good for security but the prey is better in sport  

here are dogs that can bite and dont look like they are falling a sleep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcaAPhThnBM&feature=related



 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yadeRfqjMMM&feature=related 

Pike del lupo nero have been used or are going to be in denmark, opal as you said, and many others famous producers like sid v haus pixner , mike weinbergblick, jucan and other dogs with for example nick in the pedigree just as a few examples. Please read for once what I´m saying,it´s not about being able to pass a SCH-trial, that´s not to hard, it´s about the drives and performance of the dogs used that sets them apart from many others. It´s also strange you call kimbo boring,yet many of his offspring seems to have plenty of drive and power, if kimbo and his offspring are boring so is many of the dog you like too, because they don´t show the drive and power of kimbo sons like gator and many others. And prey doesn´t mean a dog is weak, but it sure doesn´t mean it´s a better dog in courage or nerves either, this is my main point, much prey and play isn´t equal to good policedog, but no one says prey should be neglected, it´s just that it´s only one part of a good dog.

It´s good to critizice if justified , but it should be based on fact then. Some ring3 dogs also looks kind sleepy, yet get good scores. The need for a bite crazy dog that flies over cars is not the main job for many policedogs, so what´s so impressive with that? I´m more impressed with a dog that could do both good nosework,  riotcontroll and reliabe handlerprotection, this is the main use of many policedogs, hopefully denmark don´t become a warzone anytime zone that only special bitingdogs is needed;)

But of course SCH isn´t flawless, but as I´ve said earlier GSDs from different lines and sport/works also outside SCH exists. It may very well be that the malinois is better suited for extreme heat and working very long,  but that doesn´t mean all GSDs should breed for a specific job, as an allround policedog and securitydog the GSD is still very common, if it easier to find malinois for minedetection work in some hot places like bosnia or middleeast this doesn´t bother me to much.

Pike is a very Nice dog indeed . That is what I wrote before the dog should not be bred for only one job but they are only testet In schh that is only one job and the easiest of all. But not many gsd Can make it In other bite sports ??? So where are the The dogs that Can dó it All ??? It should be a versatile working dog but its not , its difficult to find a dog that could dó RING or KNPV or minedetection or SAR that is difficult to find a dogs that has the drives to dó good ???? They Can dó schh but again even a poodle could dó schh The gsd cant even make it as a rescue dog In Denmark many fail the test due to the work In heat or to be able to work for longer time very few pass Allround police dogs In Denmark Well Im not impressed with their bite work slow and loose bite sure they are good at nose work but but In their bite work poor bite,to slow and slows Down when neering the decoy Well I still rarely see a dog that could impress mé many of these dogs are normal working dog Jucan maybe only used only 4 times If not 3 Opal maybe 2 times so that is not much but Sid and Mike has been used alot here

There is ONE kind of dog that would be the best choice in ALL of those forms of work.  The exception is, some venues have tolerance where others do not.

Johann77 I have read your statements that its not about the schh title but the drive and perfomance the dogs make Tell mé what special about satoris gator or ellute vom der mohnwiese or the other Kimbo grandchild Jabina Lexus they have what most of All working Line dogs have what Can they dó that makes Them special????? That other dogs dont have or Ajax vom Røhnzahlerbach why are these dogs used they are not special In any Way I Can tell you that Atenagårdens Tabo is a very Nice dog and highly driven but guess you know him Or Satoris Santo was a very Nice dog very driven

Have not been able to read more than the first few apges but,...

Alot of what i notice is the AKC show people that dont even health test, or temperament test, or do any kind of sport with their dogs, but breed because it is an AKC Champion, or from such-and so, and its rear touches the ground and has the best gait etc etc, THOSE are the people bashing Schutzhund and many of the other sports. 1. Because their dogs CANT do it, 2. tis cheaper for them to not do it and 3. Theyre too lazy to do it, but will justify breeding their dogs because they are champions etc.

I truly havent seen many of the Sv standard breeders, or Sch people talk badly of it. I HAVE seen some trainers, and alot of club members, etc, speak of how alot of the titles are fake and some judges (more so over seas than here) are paid to sign the books. But have not seen anyone knock the sport itself...other than the changes that have been made.