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by Micaho on 15 June 2011 - 18:06
New to forum, need lots of advice! I have a dominant high drive 11 month old puppy which is not what I was looking for! We have to adjust to each other and I am looking for suggestions. So far everyone agrees he needs long walks on pinch collar, also lots of running exercise which he doesn't get on such walks. We tried balls and kongs and he's obsessed which can't be good. Second suggestion is owner through the door first which is awkward and he sometimes goes out by himself. Is a good wait and release at the door enough? Not meaning to be lazy, just don't want to get knocked down! He knows most commands which we repeat daily when he isn't ignoring me. No dog clubs or friends with dogs nearby. We had a trainer to the home but he wants us to board the dog with him, which we haven't tried yet.
This is a sweet dog but he tears the shingles off the house if I leave him out by himself(so I can't leave him out which cuts into his exercise opportunities). I'm 12 years older than when I had my last puppy and I thought that was difficult! I do not want to give up.
This is a sweet dog but he tears the shingles off the house if I leave him out by himself(so I can't leave him out which cuts into his exercise opportunities). I'm 12 years older than when I had my last puppy and I thought that was difficult! I do not want to give up.
by GSDfan on 15 June 2011 - 19:06
I have one of those...he was what we were looking for LOL.
He is crated or kenneled when we cannot supervise him, when he is out in the house he tries to get into everything. His name is Tei, which is short for Teikiatsu which means Cyclone lol. I recommend using food puzzles to keep them occupied for more than 30 seconds...Our boy also loves chewing on Elk antlers, and enjoys ripping the continents off his orbie ball which takes him a long time. He gets walked abt 2mi almost every day...I plan on biking soon too.
You should try to find some type of working club (OB, tracking, SchH, agility, flyball etc) to give your boy something fun to do and have an outlet for his energy...I drive anywhere from 45 mins to 2 hours to get to a club to work my dogs. It is not just about tiring him out with excersise...GSD's need mental stimulation as well.
Good luck
by Micaho on 15 June 2011 - 21:06
Thanks, GSDfan. Ideas for occupying his time are appreciated. His attention span record is about 25 minutes for a large marrow bone. Most treats like antlers don't last worth the price. Biking would be ideal if he was disciplined enough to keep moving at the same time as the bike. Luckily I am retired and able to stay home with the dog, but also I can't afford alot of things and am not as physically strong as I used to be.
Don't get me wrong, I know that many GSD people would say his behavior is fairly typical, but I wish the breeder hadn't told me he was the most laid back in the litter! I asked for a dog with the lowest possible drive and was surprised when the trainer told me my dog was "off the chart" dominant. I have postponed neutering, am wondering if that would make much difference?
I realize my question wasn't very specific, so maybe I should ask why he is biting us when we try to put on or take off his leash and how to correct it. Also, repeated recalls across a field and search games are used for exercise and "work." I don't want to harm his spirit, just need to minimize injuries to us and property damage!
by GSDfan on 16 June 2011 - 00:06
If you think a dog can eat an Elk antler in one sitting you have never gotten one
http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=2593&ParentCat=320&string=elk antler
Is he biting you out of play being a knuckle head like mouthing or is he biting you out of aggression or ill temperament. If he is not for work don't be afraid to be a little heavy handed or forceful to control his dominance...if he is not for work you dont have to worry much about squashing drives.
My dog Tei I got when he was 10 months because his pet home could not deal with and did not have patience for his drives.
http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=2593&ParentCat=320&string=elk antler
Is he biting you out of play being a knuckle head like mouthing or is he biting you out of aggression or ill temperament. If he is not for work don't be afraid to be a little heavy handed or forceful to control his dominance...if he is not for work you dont have to worry much about squashing drives.
My dog Tei I got when he was 10 months because his pet home could not deal with and did not have patience for his drives.
by Myracle on 16 June 2011 - 01:06
GSDFan,
I've seen dogs go through antlers in a sitting.
My own takes months, but I've seen other dogs who only take days, or hours.
I've seen dogs go through antlers in a sitting.
My own takes months, but I've seen other dogs who only take days, or hours.
by Mindhunt on 16 June 2011 - 01:06
I like the term "firm" rather than heavy handed or forceful since some people take the terminology the wrong way and end up hitting their dog or some such nonsense (which I am not in any way saying GSDfan meant those terms in the wrong way). I do agree with GSDfan on the idea that you NEED to find a good trainer who is used to this kind of dog or some club of some kind to keep him stimulated in a good way. I used to drive anywhere from an hour to 3 depending on where the trainer I wanted was training at. Get used to the driving and make sure the trainer is someone you can talk to and get information from, who isn't afraid to teach you how to work with your dog. You need to find someone soon, sometimes getting forceful with a dominant dog can backfire and make the situation worse, especially if you are not used to this type of dog. I have seen more dogs than I want who have gotten aggressive, some to the point of euthanizing, because of inexperienced owners trying to out dominate their dog or who used the wrong methods for their particular dog. Find a trainer. Good luck and it does get better
by GSDfan on 16 June 2011 - 12:06
Mudwick...."I've seen dogs go through antlers in a sitting." Wow! a GSD?....I have a couple dilligent chewers and it still takes them several weeks to wear it down small enough that I throw it out.
Mindhunt...agreed.. I don't believe in abuse. Some strong willed dominant dogs need a "firm" hand (however you want to say it). Decisive, consistent and black and white...a strong leader.
If a pet dog was mouthing my hand while I was trying to leash him up I'd start with a quick, firm grab of the scruf a half shake and say NO....depending on his behavior with that would depend on how far it goes from there.
Mindhunt...agreed.. I don't believe in abuse. Some strong willed dominant dogs need a "firm" hand (however you want to say it). Decisive, consistent and black and white...a strong leader.
If a pet dog was mouthing my hand while I was trying to leash him up I'd start with a quick, firm grab of the scruf a half shake and say NO....depending on his behavior with that would depend on how far it goes from there.
by Micaho on 16 June 2011 - 16:06
I wish I could find something my dog could work on for days! He ate a $15 antler in 15 minutes, so I figured it wasn't worth getting another! I actually looked around thinking he must have buried it, but it was GONE!! This dog is intense! The nylabone chews are of no interest at all.
I must live in Hicksville since there really aren't many trainers or clubs to choose from that I can find. Between my last GSD and this one I think I've contacted every reputable trainer in the phone book. It seems really hard for them to give me useful advice after seeing the dog for maybe an hour and on his best behavior. And they are consistently not available for follow up. The last guy really knows his stuff as far as predicting my dog's behavior, but as a person to board the dog with, I find it hard to trust him based on some of his statements.
My pup is mouthing and nibbling as play but he has punctured skin. When I tell him "NO" he gets this wicked look in his eyes and starts biting more. That's what troubles me. Without the leash I can't do a corrective jerk. I was told by the trainer that grabbing his scruff is a personal offense which will cause him to escalate. That seemed strange since it is mother dog's correction, but now as he resists being leashed it seems to be true.
Bottom line is I don't know how to make him stop a behavior unless he respects me. So I am at the point where I can't let him make any decisions about in or out, toys, time to play, etc. He has to be crated until I decide what we will do. I have to win every argument, follow through on commands, practice "learn to earn," and never let him get excited. Not to minimize clubs and trainers, but I think it will be our relationship the other 22 hours a day that will make the most difference. You want to have fun with your puppy, but this is really going to be a lot of work.
Right now in the classifieds there are lots of 8-12 month old GSDs needing new homes I don't want to be one of the casualties. Thanks for your help!
I must live in Hicksville since there really aren't many trainers or clubs to choose from that I can find. Between my last GSD and this one I think I've contacted every reputable trainer in the phone book. It seems really hard for them to give me useful advice after seeing the dog for maybe an hour and on his best behavior. And they are consistently not available for follow up. The last guy really knows his stuff as far as predicting my dog's behavior, but as a person to board the dog with, I find it hard to trust him based on some of his statements.
My pup is mouthing and nibbling as play but he has punctured skin. When I tell him "NO" he gets this wicked look in his eyes and starts biting more. That's what troubles me. Without the leash I can't do a corrective jerk. I was told by the trainer that grabbing his scruff is a personal offense which will cause him to escalate. That seemed strange since it is mother dog's correction, but now as he resists being leashed it seems to be true.
Bottom line is I don't know how to make him stop a behavior unless he respects me. So I am at the point where I can't let him make any decisions about in or out, toys, time to play, etc. He has to be crated until I decide what we will do. I have to win every argument, follow through on commands, practice "learn to earn," and never let him get excited. Not to minimize clubs and trainers, but I think it will be our relationship the other 22 hours a day that will make the most difference. You want to have fun with your puppy, but this is really going to be a lot of work.
Right now in the classifieds there are lots of 8-12 month old GSDs needing new homes I don't want to be one of the casualties. Thanks for your help!
by Jyl on 16 June 2011 - 18:06
Micaho,
Where do you live? You can PM if you would like. Once I know where you live I may be able to get you in touch with a good trainer.
Where do you live? You can PM if you would like. Once I know where you live I may be able to get you in touch with a good trainer.
by Mindhunt on 16 June 2011 - 20:06
Micaho, 2 of my last 3 high drive German Shepherds went through the mouthing stage (my rescue was so abused that he never did that). It is a stage but there still need to be limits to behavior. If your dog is eyeballing you, we call it eyef'ing, then he might be seeing your behavior as a direct challenge, which is never a good thing. I can't say for sure since I am unable to see what is happening. I used to redirect my dogs to their toys and give them lots of praise. Unfortunately, my female is still mouthy at 6 years old, but it is when she is in high drive and excited about working, it is not dominance or being a butt, just her way of saying "oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, let's go mom".
I agree with GSDfan, I have used a scruff grab to let them know that was not appropriate behavior until my oldest male would see me move toward his neck and move away quickly. I made the mistake of letting him see me make the move, the things we learn from our dogs. It is a very quick firm shake, then release, and don't let him see you. It works with some dogs and not others, my oldest male is a case in point. The problem is when people translate canine world behaviors to domesticated dogs, we don't have all the information and certianly don't understand all the nuances of canine language so the behaviors picked and used such as scruff grab have to be timed and done correctly. The biggest mistake was the old Alpha Dog Rollover, it was an incorrect concept, alpha wolves do not knock down others of lesser status to establish dominance unless they want a fight since this type of behavior is viewed as an attack. Lesser status wolves submitt by rolling over as the alpha approaches (got this correction of the behavior from more than one wolf researcher and multiple animal behaviorists who specialize in canine behavior).
As for finding a trainer, you can PM me your zip code and I can help you out with finding a reputable one.
I agree with GSDfan, I have used a scruff grab to let them know that was not appropriate behavior until my oldest male would see me move toward his neck and move away quickly. I made the mistake of letting him see me make the move, the things we learn from our dogs. It is a very quick firm shake, then release, and don't let him see you. It works with some dogs and not others, my oldest male is a case in point. The problem is when people translate canine world behaviors to domesticated dogs, we don't have all the information and certianly don't understand all the nuances of canine language so the behaviors picked and used such as scruff grab have to be timed and done correctly. The biggest mistake was the old Alpha Dog Rollover, it was an incorrect concept, alpha wolves do not knock down others of lesser status to establish dominance unless they want a fight since this type of behavior is viewed as an attack. Lesser status wolves submitt by rolling over as the alpha approaches (got this correction of the behavior from more than one wolf researcher and multiple animal behaviorists who specialize in canine behavior).
As for finding a trainer, you can PM me your zip code and I can help you out with finding a reputable one.
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