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by Ibrahim on 07 December 2010 - 19:12
I was reading the posts on the thread about Prager and many thoughts crossed my mind, I didn't want to go off topic so I decided to start a new one and all can share their thoughts on this topic though I may not be active in steering and managing the possible discussions as I am not very good at this thing, I only want to say what I personally think:
I often hear the term for the betterment of the breed and one more term it's for the $$$$$.
1. I think we are misusing the first term a lot, many claim they are breeding for the betterment of the breed making it sound the ultimate goal and the only interest when this is not true, most of the breeders are away from producing equal to the dogs they start with, so how could they claim they are breeding for the betterment of the breed.
2. Any breeder who accepts money in return for a puppy is doing breeding for an additional thing other than just the betterment of the breed. It is not a crime nor a shame to sell puppies and make some money, all breeders do that, I still haven't heard of a breeder who gives his puppies for free.
3. Sometimes we hear the term it's for the money, okay so what!!! We all work for the money not for the betterment of the work, the manufacturers who are truly producing products for the betterment of the human race and the whole world do not claim they are doing it for the betterment of so and so.
I never heard the airoplane, train or car manufactures claiming they are doing it for the betterment of the human race or the vehicle, world etc. They are doing it for the mere profit and we respect them for that, work for them, buy from them and use their products happily. So why do some breeders use any chance they get to claim they are doing it for the betterment of the breed!!! And why so many hit breeders with the term it's for the money !!!
4. If you want to critique a breeder do that based on things such as:
a. responsibility.
b. honesty.
c. quality vs price
Ibrahim
I often hear the term for the betterment of the breed and one more term it's for the $$$$$.
1. I think we are misusing the first term a lot, many claim they are breeding for the betterment of the breed making it sound the ultimate goal and the only interest when this is not true, most of the breeders are away from producing equal to the dogs they start with, so how could they claim they are breeding for the betterment of the breed.
2. Any breeder who accepts money in return for a puppy is doing breeding for an additional thing other than just the betterment of the breed. It is not a crime nor a shame to sell puppies and make some money, all breeders do that, I still haven't heard of a breeder who gives his puppies for free.
3. Sometimes we hear the term it's for the money, okay so what!!! We all work for the money not for the betterment of the work, the manufacturers who are truly producing products for the betterment of the human race and the whole world do not claim they are doing it for the betterment of so and so.
I never heard the airoplane, train or car manufactures claiming they are doing it for the betterment of the human race or the vehicle, world etc. They are doing it for the mere profit and we respect them for that, work for them, buy from them and use their products happily. So why do some breeders use any chance they get to claim they are doing it for the betterment of the breed!!! And why so many hit breeders with the term it's for the money !!!
4. If you want to critique a breeder do that based on things such as:
a. responsibility.
b. honesty.
c. quality vs price
Ibrahim
by K9sRule on 07 December 2010 - 20:12
Ibrahim...very well put....I totally agree
It is a business and many breeders are not doing it for the "betterment of the breed", but because they can get more money out of sires/dams with titles/hip ratings. I'm not saying every breeder is that way.
And face it....schutzhund is a great sport...but not a extreamly accurate breed test......only a few dogs that compete would actually bite a bad guy thats charging them and successfully fight of a guy thats serious.
Same with ob.. and tracking.
JMO.............Aline :-)
It is a business and many breeders are not doing it for the "betterment of the breed", but because they can get more money out of sires/dams with titles/hip ratings. I'm not saying every breeder is that way.
And face it....schutzhund is a great sport...but not a extreamly accurate breed test......only a few dogs that compete would actually bite a bad guy thats charging them and successfully fight of a guy thats serious.
Same with ob.. and tracking.
JMO.............Aline :-)
by Ace952 on 07 December 2010 - 21:12
Ibrahim.....well said!
You started this thread before I could.
You started this thread before I could.
by frankm205 on 07 December 2010 - 21:12
Think about this." Betterment of the breed" by who's standards? Yours? mine? the pet quality guy who just wants a companion.? The blind guy who needs a dog to help him get around? Who is to judge what the betterment of the breed is anyway? Some Sch judge?
As far a bite work goes , really is that such an important trait? How many of you have had your dog bite someone for real, not just for fun or sport, or accident? How many of your dogs can chase a bad guy into a dark building at night he has never been in before and bite the hidden sleeve while being hit with a unpadded stick?
If your dog can't do that stuff is he or she considered a good or poor quality dog? I guess what I'm saying here is that sometimes we are quick to judge breeders for what they produce. Yes a poor physical speciman, with poor temperment is unacceptable, but that aside where do we say what is for the betterment of the breed and what is not? Ibrahim is correct, honesty and quality according to the buyers standards is what is most important, along with communication of facts !!!
As far a bite work goes , really is that such an important trait? How many of you have had your dog bite someone for real, not just for fun or sport, or accident? How many of your dogs can chase a bad guy into a dark building at night he has never been in before and bite the hidden sleeve while being hit with a unpadded stick?
If your dog can't do that stuff is he or she considered a good or poor quality dog? I guess what I'm saying here is that sometimes we are quick to judge breeders for what they produce. Yes a poor physical speciman, with poor temperment is unacceptable, but that aside where do we say what is for the betterment of the breed and what is not? Ibrahim is correct, honesty and quality according to the buyers standards is what is most important, along with communication of facts !!!
by MaggieMae on 07 December 2010 - 21:12
Very good post Ibrahim. "Breeding for the Betterment of the Breed" is an overused -- and inaccurate -- term.
by desert dog on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
Sounds like a public lynching for anyone that breeds his own dogs, and sells what he can't keep. This is wrong . Frankm205 says it better than i can.
by Ibrahim on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
desert land,
I will add that I personally like and appreciate breeders who produce good quality puppies which we enjoy their company and services. I am only amazed with the term on one side "for the betterment of the breed" and on the other side "it's for the $$$".
Ibrahim
I will add that I personally like and appreciate breeders who produce good quality puppies which we enjoy their company and services. I am only amazed with the term on one side "for the betterment of the breed" and on the other side "it's for the $$$".
Ibrahim
by sable59 on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
well put frankm205. having said that let me say that all dogs are not the big brave dogs that we here so much about.not ever cross is the best for hard ,civil dogs.i was late getting started but i learn fast.
by Wildmoor on 08 December 2010 - 00:12
Ibrahim
In the UK we say its for the £££ but that is referring to those breeders who breed for one thing: colour and knowingly use dogs/bitches with high hip scores or none, known epileptic producers and they are also aware of all the other genetic problems in their lines but continually inbreed on them, especially with half sibling matings from epilepsy lines - some of these dogs have only recently produced epilepsy within the last fews years but they still breed off them
In the UK we say its for the £££ but that is referring to those breeders who breed for one thing: colour and knowingly use dogs/bitches with high hip scores or none, known epileptic producers and they are also aware of all the other genetic problems in their lines but continually inbreed on them, especially with half sibling matings from epilepsy lines - some of these dogs have only recently produced epilepsy within the last fews years but they still breed off them
by JRANSOM on 08 December 2010 - 00:12
Ibrahim,
I just started reading your post and I went no further then your OP. I see what you are saying and agree!
I just started reading your post and I went no further then your OP. I see what you are saying and agree!
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