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by Abby Normal on 06 October 2011 - 14:10
Blitzen - Yes, Dingo is the gold standard of gaiting, and is proof that today's excessive angulation is not required for a beautiful and correct side gait.
I agree with Pod that the overangulation of many dogs today actually impedes the gait, and certainly back reach has been diminished as a result, and if you have forward reach you should have good back reach for a truly balanced gait. There is also a tendency for the front legs to be way too high in the flying trot, which again is a result of excessive rear angulation. There was a link to an article about the structure of the GSD on the 'Origin of Arched Back' thread, which was superb. It's long, sometimes quite 'technical' but well worth reading IMO.
I agree with Pod that the overangulation of many dogs today actually impedes the gait, and certainly back reach has been diminished as a result, and if you have forward reach you should have good back reach for a truly balanced gait. There is also a tendency for the front legs to be way too high in the flying trot, which again is a result of excessive rear angulation. There was a link to an article about the structure of the GSD on the 'Origin of Arched Back' thread, which was superb. It's long, sometimes quite 'technical' but well worth reading IMO.
by Pirates Lair on 06 October 2011 - 14:10
Vonissk - it's a great idea don't you think, by raising them as a working dog you provide them with confidence for whatever they will do later on in life.
Show, Schutzhund, PSD etc.
Kim
Show, Schutzhund, PSD etc.
Kim
by Blitzen on 06 October 2011 - 14:10
Yeah, it's hard for an overangulated dog to have a sound gait for many reasons. The flying trot will normally be seen, but all 4 legs might not be going in the same direction 
.
Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. I once showed that vid of Dingo to a friend in another breed;an AKC peson who thinks all GSD's walk on their hocks and have wonky temperaments. She thought Dingo was a bad mover, down in pasterns and and a hock walker. Duh.............
.Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. I once showed that vid of Dingo to a friend in another breed;an AKC peson who thinks all GSD's walk on their hocks and have wonky temperaments. She thought Dingo was a bad mover, down in pasterns and and a hock walker. Duh.............
by vonissk on 06 October 2011 - 15:10
Yes Kim I do. And that's why I am a puppy raiser. I mean anybody can socialize and housebreak a puppy. But I go to the extreme. I feel the most important thing you can do with a puppy is lay the correct foundation. And the more you imprint the more it will pay off in the long run.
A lot of you know I have several physical disabilities. I also have a large boned, strong, German wl/DDR male. He could pull me down at any time. BUT because I put so much time in his foundation work, he is the perfect gentleman. Anywhere we go, except dog shows, he minds and does everything I tell him to. The truth is there is no way I could make him if he didn't want to.
Ay least that's MY beliefs and until I am proven different I am going to continue because I think it is best for the dog...............
A lot of you know I have several physical disabilities. I also have a large boned, strong, German wl/DDR male. He could pull me down at any time. BUT because I put so much time in his foundation work, he is the perfect gentleman. Anywhere we go, except dog shows, he minds and does everything I tell him to. The truth is there is no way I could make him if he didn't want to.
Ay least that's MY beliefs and until I am proven different I am going to continue because I think it is best for the dog...............
by HollyMyLove on 09 October 2011 - 19:10
Wow-thanks for all the wonderful replies. I am not a breeder, just a owner. I was just curious. My dog is a working dog. Together we volunteer at a hospital and provide social therapy to patients.
by sidhimelkel on 11 October 2011 - 00:10
Beautiful pup. Glad you're active with him.
by shri on 11 October 2011 - 15:10
Too much angulation in the hinds definitely poses problems with hind action leading to weak hinds,it also compromises the endurance for gaiting,no doubt the side trot looks impressive but can such GSD sustain the trot for long duration so important for the working capabilities?
by GSDNewbie on 11 October 2011 - 18:10
I have a nine year old that has zero physical issue in doing walls or anything else asked of him. He covers vast amount of ground in still a large flowing effortless trot.
My puppy is super agile. I used to use working build rottweilers over show line in sar and obstacles as the show ones would over heat and were too bulky to be agile. My sl gsds all three are capable of any physical activity I give them at ages 15 m, 8, and 9 years of age.
My puppy is super agile. I used to use working build rottweilers over show line in sar and obstacles as the show ones would over heat and were too bulky to be agile. My sl gsds all three are capable of any physical activity I give them at ages 15 m, 8, and 9 years of age.
by Xeph on 11 October 2011 - 19:10
I love my American show lines, very much. I love the finesse of the AKC ring.
But I do not love excessively angulated dogs. My own little girl has a tad too much rear for me, but what bothers me more than a bit too much rear, is the fact her ligamentation is a bit too loose.
Something that must be kept in mind is that you can have an overangulated dog that is "clean" coming and going if the ligaments are tight and "keep the dog together". It is poor ligamentation, just as much as excessive angles that cause a dog to "knit you a sweater" going away.
My girl has beautiful, but slightly excessive overreach in the rear. Beautiful reach in front as well, but again, I'd like stronger pasterns and ligaments for when she finishes on the forehand.
I do not deny that the American ring wants EXCESSIVE front and EXCESSIVE rear. I've seen some beautiful, balanced, OPEN shoulders (and rears), that many AmLine fanciers would not like, because they are not "open enough". I think it is forgotten that while shoulders and rears that open correctly are VERY important, true tending dogs do not open both ends constantly, all day, every day.
The trot is minimized...conservative. The proper opening at both ends is important when the dog needs to take on an unruly sheep, get it back in a relative hurry, and perhaps maintain that border a bit more arduously than usual for awhile.
But I do not love excessively angulated dogs. My own little girl has a tad too much rear for me, but what bothers me more than a bit too much rear, is the fact her ligamentation is a bit too loose.
Something that must be kept in mind is that you can have an overangulated dog that is "clean" coming and going if the ligaments are tight and "keep the dog together". It is poor ligamentation, just as much as excessive angles that cause a dog to "knit you a sweater" going away.
My girl has beautiful, but slightly excessive overreach in the rear. Beautiful reach in front as well, but again, I'd like stronger pasterns and ligaments for when she finishes on the forehand.
I do not deny that the American ring wants EXCESSIVE front and EXCESSIVE rear. I've seen some beautiful, balanced, OPEN shoulders (and rears), that many AmLine fanciers would not like, because they are not "open enough". I think it is forgotten that while shoulders and rears that open correctly are VERY important, true tending dogs do not open both ends constantly, all day, every day.
The trot is minimized...conservative. The proper opening at both ends is important when the dog needs to take on an unruly sheep, get it back in a relative hurry, and perhaps maintain that border a bit more arduously than usual for awhile.
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